EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 629
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
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WladimirUN
Germany67 Posts
 i have some questions:- does naix feast apply on cleaved targets too? - is stacking + pulling or single pulling better? i'm bit split on this, i mostly play support (even though i think mmr is not nice to supports  ). doing single pulls at .16 means i get levels/gold as the creeps kill the camp. getting last hits really helps the income. depending on the camp you can deny 1-3 creeps to the enemys. at stacking/pulling the creeps dont kill anything but the whole creepwave gets denied. but my income/xp starts to be very lackluster - warding/de-warding is there a good guide just for blocking/dewarding? or how accurate is that "ultimate guide to warding" by dignitas? i have the feeling that there the area where you block stuff is not really mentioned so dewarding might block it more - armor i have no feeling for "armor" - how "good" is e.g. a medaillon early on a support? how much dmg increase (ofc roughly) can this mean in median for the carry? - drums as a support i try to get this item as normally i have a bracers already built. it still is an investment of 1250 where i am not sure at all if its worth it or if e.g. a faster ghost scepter might help more. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8915 Posts
single pulling is faster exp/gold for supports. if earlier lvls on your supports can lead to your supports being more useful than their offlaner, then single pulling is better. stacking is only necessary/recommended when it is vital that their offlane is starved of all possible exp/gold. if their offlane is a hero that can be given some lvls/gold but still wont be able to make much impact till later, single pulling is better because your supports will be stronger/equal to theirs. look around the strategy section or search it. too lazy to find for you myself armour was discussed quite heavily i think a few pages back in this thread, might be wrong though. again, search it drums is rarely a good pickup for supports as opposed to other items such as ghost scepter or force staff. supports are usually carriers of arcane boots and are also not using their skills as much, therefore the added intelligence from drums is sometimes surplus. movement speed is useful but not enough to warrant the purchase, and drums may have been picked up already by someone else which means you wont need the active. there are cases where multiple drums are bought within a team, but that will usually be because there are multiple heroes in a team that get drum as a core item. force staff provides much higher utility for your team and more survivability for you, as with ghost scepter. other items worth considering with 1250 gold is gem, or raw hp such as ogre axe, point booster, vit booster or just wards/sentries/dust/smoke etc. Saving for blink is also worth considering too, depending on your hero | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
On October 02 2013 00:07 WladimirUN wrote: - drums as a support i try to get this item as normally i have a bracers already built. it still is an investment of 1250 where i am not sure at all if its worth it or if e.g. a faster ghost scepter might help more. If you're planning to build a single bracer, an urn is almost always better. Unless you plan to get drums from the start, you're almost always better off getting an urn over a bracer (unless your team already has one). | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On October 02 2013 00:07 WladimirUN wrote: hi i have some questions:- does naix feast apply on cleaved targets too? - is stacking + pulling or single pulling better? i'm bit split on this, i mostly play support (even though i think mmr is not nice to supports ). doing single pulls at .16 means i get levels/gold as the creeps kill the camp. getting last hits really helps the income. depending on the camp you can deny 1-3 creeps to the enemys. at stacking/pulling the creeps dont kill anything but the whole creepwave gets denied. but my income/xp starts to be very lackluster - warding/de-warding is there a good guide just for blocking/dewarding? or how accurate is that "ultimate guide to warding" by dignitas? i have the feeling that there the area where you block stuff is not really mentioned so dewarding might block it more - armor i have no feeling for "armor" - how "good" is e.g. a medaillon early on a support? how much dmg increase (ofc roughly) can this mean in median for the carry? - drums as a support i try to get this item as normally i have a bracers already built. it still is an investment of 1250 where i am not sure at all if its worth it or if e.g. a faster ghost scepter might help more. Feast does not cleave. Single pulling is generally frowned upon since it will push your lane with the remaining creeps, giving the opponents farm you want to deny. You can connect your pull though by aggroing nearby camps when the last neutral is about to die, that way you still get to deny all the creeps. Gets trickier when players start ward/ bodyblocking and harassing pulling supports. Being liberal, you can say HP is most important early game, HP and armor midgame, evasion lategame. Medaillion on a support is good when you have rightclick carries and a line-up that can kill Rosh well. Every point in armor increases the effectual HP of a hero with 6% vs rightclick, so it totally depends on what damage the opponent relies on the most. I think generally drums isn't that good of a support item. Most carries nowadays get it for the midgame stats boost, so getting an extra is usless for the aura's sake. Mekansm (or ghost scepter vs heavy right click) is going to be better almost always. Edit: Take that dead horse. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Got 10 armor? Don't bother with more until you have at least 1000 HP. Etc. Keep in mind that just because you have 10 armor in base doesn't mean you will have 10 armor once the enemy is done casting his spells on you. Its good to know who will lower your armor significantly since +armor becomes more cost efficient against those opponents. Also note that: If you get a ghost sceptre armor is much less relevant. If your opponents are doing magic damage, armor is completely irrelevant. Its important to understand when armor isn't helping you at all, which as a support can be more often than you think. When in doubt, raw HP is probably better. Besides, often something like a forcestaff to push yourself away from the enemy is more survivability than anything else ever could be so keep that in mind. As a support, some good armor items include Mekansm (+5), Vladmir's Offering (+5 in an aura) and Medallion of Courage (+6 I believe). If you can get to a shivas guard that is also amazing but that isn't really a support item. A quick note on Damage block: Stout Shield/Poor Mans Shield/Vanguard all offer damage block. While these are great for early jungling and very early laning, they DO NOT DO WELL LATE. Never use damage block as a substitute for armor against physical damage. It is merely for enhancing early game survivability. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
you can't really contest runes | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On October 02 2013 06:01 kollin wrote: How am I meant to play out SF vs TA mid as the SF? I played the matchup out for the first time, and it was pretty hard. I got a respectable amount of cs by bottle crowing a lot and using razes to farm, and I'm not sure what else I could be doing. Rune control generally went to the TA, and while I tried to harass her refraction shut that down basically. TA is like the hardest mid opponent for except the obvious OD. Sf can't do anything to TA that uses refraction well, gets obliterated by psi blades coz of his low range and can die easily if he makes a mistake but cannot really punish mistakes himself. If you are radiant getting some jungle farm from easy camp is a good help, otherwise you have to hope for a good gank at lvl 5, razes are really powerful at that timing and you should have almost full souls for lvl 2 necromastery. You can't win the lane, you have to hope to win the other ones | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
If you are radiant, raze down the creep wave then farm the easy camp. Get supports to either gank her for you or stack neutrals (or both). Realistically, its not a matchup you are really supposed to win. By the time you hit level 5 and especially 7 though, TA can't really keep up with your wave push so you can spam out the wave and go do stuff (get runes, jungle, whatever). TA is kinda pinned in lane by the constant push. If she leaves, you can take the tower. Its fairly important to make sure you don't leave your highground once she is 6 though since with traps she can easily kill you if you enter the river. Its gonna start out rough no matter what (unless level 1 ganks) but eventually you will take over somewhat. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Depending on the matchup of the enemy offlaner and your carry on the lane it can become bad or good to constantly pull. The effects are the following: The enemy creepwave keeps coming to your tower and your carry is laning 1v1 with creep disadvantage. Your carry will need to kill the creepwave quickly, because when they enter the tower range, they either attack him or the tower, which will drain the hp of whoever gets attacked there. The other thing is that the enemy offlaner may be able to harass or heavily damage your carry on top of that. If you only stack and pull, start looking at the lane too. You may actually damage your carry if you do it blindly. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On October 02 2013 08:59 Carmine wrote: I have a question. Say I am playing a support near the jungle. I understand that it is bad to push the lane by pulling a single camp in most cases. If I stack the camp once, then kill the neutrals and creeps then I have denied XP to the enemy, gained XP I couldn't have gotten effeciently, and reset the creep wave to the front of our tower. So it seems to me that if I am not doing anything else (trying to push lane, gank or something) then this would always be something good to do. Is this correct? yes, as long as your carry isn't getting owned by whoever he's laning against (in which case you want to just babysit him. stacking + pulling will deny enemies exp, give your carry solo exp, and give you farm that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. On October 02 2013 09:15 Mataza wrote: This essentially means you go even, yes. Depending on the matchup of the enemy offlaner and your carry on the lane it can become bad or good to constantly pull. The effects are the following: The enemy creepwave keeps coming to your tower and your carry is laning 1v1 with creep disadvantage. Your carry will need to kill the creepwave quickly, because when they enter the tower range, they either attack him or the tower, which will drain the hp of whoever gets attacked there. The other thing is that the enemy offlaner may be able to harass or heavily damage your carry on top of that. If you only stack and pull, start looking at the lane too. You may actually damage your carry if you do it blindly. yeah, it's also important to note that if the enemy laners are pushing really hard and you do this stack+pull you could lose your safelane t1 tower VERY early. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The first is that if you do this off the bat, there are a lot of off-laners that can actually pressure your carry's farm/get XP off the creep wave(s) you don't pull by virtue of being strong/safe laners if un-disturbed. You have to exercise your presence on the lane and be sure that they don't do either of these 2 things, before you begin pulling. If you can keep their off-laner completely off the lane and ensure that he does not touch the creeps and your carry gets free-farm, this takes priority over pulling typically, because the net gain overall is higher than the partial XP denial from you pulling because in order to control the pull, you sacrifice your presence ON the lane. Also, if you're 2v2, you have to be sure that you can CONTROL the pull. If the enemy comes to contest your pull, and you cannot win the 2v2 to control your pull, then you are essentially feeding the pull camp's XP to the enemy if they last-hit it properly or use spells to take the creeps. | ||
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Carmine
United States263 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On October 02 2013 09:18 TheYango wrote: Yes, though there are a couple considerations. The first is that if you do this off the bat, there are a lot of off-laners that can actually pressure your carry's farm/get XP off the creep wave(s) you don't pull by virtue of being strong/safe laners if un-disturbed. You have to exercise your presence on the lane and be sure that they don't do either of these 2 things, before you begin pulling. If you can keep their off-laner completely off the lane and ensure that he does not touch the creeps and your carry gets free-farm, this takes priority over pulling typically, because the net gain overall is higher than the partial XP denial from you pulling because in order to control the pull, you sacrifice your presence ON the lane. Also, if you're 2v2, you have to be sure that you can CONTROL the pull. If the enemy comes to contest your pull, and you cannot win the 2v2 to control your pull, then you are essentially feeding the pull camp's XP to the enemy if they last-hit it properly or use spells to take the creeps. Flowchart: 1) Make sure lanepresence is established. Whether that means zoning a solo guy or making sure a 2n2/3n3 doesn't lose much from leaving for a short moment has top priority. 2) If you can assume that the enemy laner(s) CAN'T safely leave the lane (common e.g. 3n1 but not 3n2 or with even numbers, sometimes true after strong pushes/forcing them back) for the next 30s you can safely chainpull. You need to be strong enough to flat out kill them if they come to contest it. 3) If you can assume that the enemy laner(s) CAN safely leave lane to contest chainpulls (common in 2n2, 2n1, 3n2, 3n3 lanes etc.) stacking and pulling > chainpulls. If you manage to e.g. push out the wave, do a stacked camp that you farm quickly your (still pushed) lane is less relevant because of the exp advantage you got from it. 3.1) This is dangerous against someone who has stronger control over the pull in general. Most prominent example is probably KotL but shit like Lina or similar heroes can also quickly turn a stacked camp against you. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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