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Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 07:04:49
September 13 2013 07:04 GMT
#12061
I think ET is a viable offlaner, he can farm with spirit and is relatively dangerous to gank ebcause with a good stomp he can walk away or have TP support come in
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 07:46:09
September 13 2013 07:45 GMT
#12062
On September 13 2013 12:43 igotmyown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2013 10:15 Baggage wrote:
Soul Ring on ET is pretty much like having a Soul Ring on Skeleton King. Pretty useless outside of laning phase, and not worth the investment in terms of the offlane gold your likely to get.

Some tricks to get exp/gold on ET against a duo lane are:

- Creep pull like Syllabear/Bounty Hunter (risky since you have to use your hero, you really have to evaluate whether the opposing laners can kill you at level 1)
- Sick haste rune/illusion/invis rune
- Use the spirit to mess up the support's pulls/creep equilibrium
- Block your creeps so that the range creep dies first (unlikely to succeed against more competent carries)
- If you're on Radiant side you can cut a tree and pull the large dire camp

It's also important to note that your Spirit gives you bonus damage and movement speed, so you can bully weak laning supports (usually melee/low range/low movement speed) as long as you make sure it passes through all the creeps/heroes in lane. Once you get boots you can boots timing the support and whack him out of lane (since the expectation is with passive gold you should get your boots before them).

On September 12 2013 18:53 VelJa wrote:
ET is a nice offlaner. in Pub i guess. because 0 escape mechanism.
No one pro will be sleep by his slam


It's really the fear of getting hit by echo stomp that's far more relevant. Imagine a situation where your team is trying to push a tower and the opposition is trying to defend it. All you have to do is toss a spirit and make them follow heroes around, which makes it far harder for them to engage due to it's exceptional range. If they initiate on your team, your spirit threatens to stomp and cut off their backlines (isolating the initiator), and if they don't engage then you grab a relatively easy/free tower.

In terms of defending towers, you place your spirit and you can also just stomp the enemy creeps. This will effectively slow pushes down for 5 seconds at level 4. The strength of echo stomp comes from it's zoning utility. It's arguably easy to dodge compared other skills, but to say something like no pro will be hit by his stomp shows a poor understanding of ET's strengths and capabilities.


Hmmm, none of your bulletpoints have anything to do with titan/tauren chieftain. You could be offlaning a naked crystal maiden and have the same effect,

edit: except nuking the pull,


Well I guess playing melee offlaners with no in built escape mechanism does mean you end up doing a lot of the same tricks. Although, the point about using Spirit Damage to bully out supports is technically ET specific.
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8915 Posts
September 13 2013 08:13 GMT
#12063
On September 13 2013 16:01 Aikin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2013 10:15 Baggage wrote:
Soul Ring on ET is pretty much like having a Soul Ring on Skeleton King. Pretty useless outside of laning phase, and not worth the investment in terms of the offlane gold your likely to get.

Some tricks to get exp/gold on ET against a duo lane are:

- Creep pull like Syllabear/Bounty Hunter (risky since you have to use your hero, you really have to evaluate whether the opposing laners can kill you at level 1)
- Sick haste rune/illusion/invis rune
- Use the spirit to mess up the support's pulls/creep equilibrium
- Block your creeps so that the range creep dies first (unlikely to succeed against more competent carries)
- If you're on Radiant side you can cut a tree and pull the large dire camp

It's also important to note that your Spirit gives you bonus damage and movement speed, so you can bully weak laning supports (usually melee/low range/low movement speed) as long as you make sure it passes through all the creeps/heroes in lane. Once you get boots you can boots timing the support and whack him out of lane (since the expectation is with passive gold you should get your boots before them).

On September 12 2013 18:53 VelJa wrote:
ET is a nice offlaner. in Pub i guess. because 0 escape mechanism.
No one pro will be sleep by his slam


It's really the fear of getting hit by echo stomp that's far more relevant. Imagine a situation where your team is trying to push a tower and the opposition is trying to defend it. All you have to do is toss a spirit and make them follow heroes around, which makes it far harder for them to engage due to it's exceptional range. If they initiate on your team, your spirit threatens to stomp and cut off their backlines (isolating the initiator), and if they don't engage then you grab a relatively easy/free tower.

In terms of defending towers, you place your spirit and you can also just stomp the enemy creeps. This will effectively slow pushes down for 5 seconds at level 4. The strength of echo stomp comes from it's zoning utility. It's arguably easy to dodge compared other skills, but to say something like no pro will be hit by his stomp shows a poor understanding of ET's strengths and capabilities.



I´m pretty sure he meant no one will be hit by the stomp when trying to kill the offlaning ET. You have to play insanely passive against a tri lane with disables because once they catch you there is no escape. I´m not saying he is a bad offlaner in pubs but I don´t think that he will be a regular in pro off lanes but i could be wrong.

It´s just pretty hard to get something out of the lane and there is not much of a comeback potential once you are behind.

However if you get past the lanning phase with decent levels and maybe manaboots or something he is quite good in the midgame.

having no escape when caught by 3 heroes goes for every other offlaner too. a good offlaner is determined by whether he can get exp/gold without getting caught by 3 heroes everytime he tries to get in lane. elder titan is good at this
VelJa
Profile Joined October 2011
France1109 Posts
September 13 2013 09:07 GMT
#12064
On September 13 2013 16:01 Aikin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2013 10:15 Baggage wrote:
Soul Ring on ET is pretty much like having a Soul Ring on Skeleton King. Pretty useless outside of laning phase, and not worth the investment in terms of the offlane gold your likely to get.

Some tricks to get exp/gold on ET against a duo lane are:

- Creep pull like Syllabear/Bounty Hunter (risky since you have to use your hero, you really have to evaluate whether the opposing laners can kill you at level 1)
- Sick haste rune/illusion/invis rune
- Use the spirit to mess up the support's pulls/creep equilibrium
- Block your creeps so that the range creep dies first (unlikely to succeed against more competent carries)
- If you're on Radiant side you can cut a tree and pull the large dire camp

It's also important to note that your Spirit gives you bonus damage and movement speed, so you can bully weak laning supports (usually melee/low range/low movement speed) as long as you make sure it passes through all the creeps/heroes in lane. Once you get boots you can boots timing the support and whack him out of lane (since the expectation is with passive gold you should get your boots before them).

On September 12 2013 18:53 VelJa wrote:
ET is a nice offlaner. in Pub i guess. because 0 escape mechanism.
No one pro will be sleep by his slam


It's really the fear of getting hit by echo stomp that's far more relevant. Imagine a situation where your team is trying to push a tower and the opposition is trying to defend it. All you have to do is toss a spirit and make them follow heroes around, which makes it far harder for them to engage due to it's exceptional range. If they initiate on your team, your spirit threatens to stomp and cut off their backlines (isolating the initiator), and if they don't engage then you grab a relatively easy/free tower.

In terms of defending towers, you place your spirit and you can also just stomp the enemy creeps. This will effectively slow pushes down for 5 seconds at level 4. The strength of echo stomp comes from it's zoning utility. It's arguably easy to dodge compared other skills, but to say something like no pro will be hit by his stomp shows a poor understanding of ET's strengths and capabilities.



I´m pretty sure he meant no one will be hit by the stomp when trying to kill the offlaning ET. You have to play insanely passive against a tri lane with disables because once they catch you there is no escape. I´m not saying he is a bad offlaner in pubs but I don´t think that he will be a regular in pro off lanes but i could be wrong.

It´s just pretty hard to get something out of the lane and there is not much of a comeback potential once you are behind.

However if you get past the lanning phase with decent levels and maybe manaboots or something he is quite good in the midgame.


^This
nvm about Soul ring on ET
It's not like SK, SK get only one manavore spell (the stun) so yeah soul ring is bad
You can compare soul ring ET as soul ring Phantom Lancer.
REally usefull in lane if no regen but 800 gold is expensive for exclusive line item
ANGRY_KOREA_MAN. -- Giff WC4 plz
Baggage
Profile Joined October 2012
Hong Kong593 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 09:35:57
September 13 2013 09:30 GMT
#12065
On September 13 2013 16:01 Aikin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2013 10:15 Baggage wrote:
Soul Ring on ET is pretty much like having a Soul Ring on Skeleton King. Pretty useless outside of laning phase, and not worth the investment in terms of the offlane gold your likely to get.

Some tricks to get exp/gold on ET against a duo lane are:

- Creep pull like Syllabear/Bounty Hunter (risky since you have to use your hero, you really have to evaluate whether the opposing laners can kill you at level 1)
- Sick haste rune/illusion/invis rune
- Use the spirit to mess up the support's pulls/creep equilibrium
- Block your creeps so that the range creep dies first (unlikely to succeed against more competent carries)
- If you're on Radiant side you can cut a tree and pull the large dire camp

It's also important to note that your Spirit gives you bonus damage and movement speed, so you can bully weak laning supports (usually melee/low range/low movement speed) as long as you make sure it passes through all the creeps/heroes in lane. Once you get boots you can boots timing the support and whack him out of lane (since the expectation is with passive gold you should get your boots before them).

On September 12 2013 18:53 VelJa wrote:
ET is a nice offlaner. in Pub i guess. because 0 escape mechanism.
No one pro will be sleep by his slam


It's really the fear of getting hit by echo stomp that's far more relevant. Imagine a situation where your team is trying to push a tower and the opposition is trying to defend it. All you have to do is toss a spirit and make them follow heroes around, which makes it far harder for them to engage due to it's exceptional range. If they initiate on your team, your spirit threatens to stomp and cut off their backlines (isolating the initiator), and if they don't engage then you grab a relatively easy/free tower.

In terms of defending towers, you place your spirit and you can also just stomp the enemy creeps. This will effectively slow pushes down for 5 seconds at level 4. The strength of echo stomp comes from it's zoning utility. It's arguably easy to dodge compared other skills, but to say something like no pro will be hit by his stomp shows a poor understanding of ET's strengths and capabilities.



I´m pretty sure he meant no one will be hit by the stomp when trying to kill the offlaning ET. You have to play insanely passive against a tri lane with disables because once they catch you there is no escape. I´m not saying he is a bad offlaner in pubs but I don´t think that he will be a regular in pro off lanes but i could be wrong.

It´s just pretty hard to get something out of the lane and there is not much of a comeback potential once you are behind.

However if you get past the lanning phase with decent levels and maybe manaboots or something he is quite good in the midgame.


The original question was specifying duo lane offlaning as opposed to trilanes.

His base stats and movement speed are pretty decent/above average, and the nature of Astral Spirit means that he's alright in some 1v1 match ups. I think that if you pit him against a trilane then the expectation is that your supports will have to be the ones to force out enemy rotations to help you catch up. He can still do reasonably ok 1v1 against carries even at a level deficit because you're far more able to get your stomp off in 1v1 situations.

With regards to Soul Ring, my comparison was made to get the point across that it's an incredibly mediocre item. Soul Ring's value on PL is that with safelane farm it's possible to farm in a reasonable time and then use it for lance spam to win your lane (possibly in 2v2 lanes). If your lane is already uncontested, then it becomes quite a useless item in comparison to raw stat items because stats is what ultimately makes PL farm faster, not hp/mana regen.

As an offlaner, the expectation is that you'll be gold starved and I really can't find justification in rushing an 800 gold in an item that doesn't offer me utility, survivability or fighting power.
[10:23pm] Gosi: I want to be famous and have many twitter followers and get blowjobs during tournements at the bathroom [10:23pm] Gosi: do i play mnid or support for thhat [10:23pm] Gosi: u tell me
tauon
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Australia1278 Posts
September 13 2013 10:50 GMT
#12066
Against some trilanes, having/not having a soul ring is the difference between getting something out of your lane or getting nothing out of your lane. It wasn't uncommon for Chinese players to rush soul ring on offlane ET/TC.
Road to 6sange
Tsutchie
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia951 Posts
September 13 2013 21:14 GMT
#12067
im trying to have my autoexec.cfg file auto run everytime i open dota 2 but having no luck. i've placed the cfg file in the D:\Steam\steamapps\common\dota 2 beta\dota\cfg folder but it doesn't seem to be running when i open dota 2. anyone familiar with this?
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8276 Posts
September 13 2013 21:18 GMT
#12068
On September 14 2013 06:14 Tsutchie wrote:
im trying to have my autoexec.cfg file auto run everytime i open dota 2 but having no luck. i've placed the cfg file in the D:\Steam\steamapps\common\dota 2 beta\dota\cfg folder but it doesn't seem to be running when i open dota 2. anyone familiar with this?


You might have to run it once manually first. Try typing in console: exec autoexec.cfg once, then restart and see what happens.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 13 2013 21:36 GMT
#12069
Also note that if you're trying to change keybinds, your in-game keybinds are loaded AFTER your autoexec.cfg, so you have to unbind them ingame or else they will over-write binds you put in autoexec.cfg.
Moderator
Tsutchie
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia951 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 23:46:31
September 13 2013 23:46 GMT
#12070
On September 14 2013 06:36 TheYango wrote:
Also note that if you're trying to change keybinds, your in-game keybinds are loaded AFTER your autoexec.cfg, so you have to unbind them ingame or else they will over-write binds you put in autoexec.cfg.


that fixed it. i unbind my ingame keybind and it worked. thanks ^^
GhastlyUprising
Profile Joined August 2013
198 Posts
September 14 2013 15:29 GMT
#12071
Is Queen of Pain viable at high level? Or is she like the DotA2 version of LeBlanc whereby you need to be fed to kingdom shit to stand a chance of pulling your weight in the late game? And you generally can't get fed because good players know how to play defensive...
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
September 14 2013 15:32 GMT
#12072
On September 15 2013 00:29 GhastlyUprising wrote:
Is Queen of Pain viable at high level? Or is she like the DotA2 version of LeBlanc whereby you need to be fed to kingdom shit to stand a chance of pulling your weight in the late game? And you generally can't get fed because good players know how to play defensive...

Queen of Pain is a top tier mid even in competitive play, she needs to snowball, but due to blink she can just farm creeps and be just fine
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
McTeazy
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada297 Posts
September 14 2013 15:35 GMT
#12073
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?


a person is smart, people are stupid
McTeazy
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada297 Posts
September 14 2013 15:37 GMT
#12074
On September 15 2013 00:29 GhastlyUprising wrote:
Is Queen of Pain viable at high level? Or is she like the DotA2 version of LeBlanc whereby you need to be fed to kingdom shit to stand a chance of pulling your weight in the late game? And you generally can't get fed because good players know how to play defensive...


she has high agi gain and so her auto attack is still pretty strong late game. with full int hero items (aka no mkb or crit) you hit for around 250 before reductions. a 1 position probably gets up to around 400 maybe
a person is smart, people are stupid
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8915 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 15:59:20
September 14 2013 15:58 GMT
#12075
On September 15 2013 00:35 McTeazy wrote:
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?



i think they both hit each other, although i wouldnt be surprised if only the first one to charge hits.
and bristle doesnt NEED mana regen.he can handle without it if you go treads and wand, especially if your teammates get arcane boots. if you really want mana you can go maybe ring of basilius or drums, but theyre not necessities on him. if youre playing the main carry in your team its better to just get radiance or another farming item like bfury or maelstrom, as relying on quill spray to flash farm is quite bad
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
September 14 2013 16:03 GMT
#12076
On September 15 2013 00:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2013 00:35 McTeazy wrote:
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?



i think they both hit each other, although i wouldnt be surprised if only the first one to charge hits.
and bristle doesnt NEED mana regen.he can handle without it if you go treads and wand, especially if your teammates get arcane boots. if you really want mana you can go maybe ring of basilius or drums, but theyre not necessities on him. if youre playing the main carry in your team its better to just get radiance or another farming item like bfury or maelstrom, as relying on quill spray to flash farm is quite bad


Is armlet a good idea on him? I see it usually on any STR damagedealer, except for Kunkka, but how about on BB?
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 16:05:20
September 14 2013 16:05 GMT
#12077
On September 15 2013 00:35 McTeazy wrote:
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?




you dont not need mana regen on bb, also dont get soulring. treads + drums is all you'll need manawise. i like drums on him cuz it solves his mana issues, provides ok hp and the speed bonus is just nice. runs so fast with ult stacks.

armlet is pretty good on bb.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
September 14 2013 16:06 GMT
#12078
On September 15 2013 00:35 McTeazy wrote:
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?



Theres 2options.
1 the second charge wins
2 rubick always wins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8276 Posts
September 14 2013 16:23 GMT
#12079
On September 15 2013 01:06 Erasme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2013 00:35 McTeazy wrote:
how does rubick vs spirit breaker charge on charge work?

do you need a mana regen item on bristle back? I played him as 1 position farmer the other day cuz our whole team randomed so I made an orchid. not really sure if its good or not. maybe linkens instead?



Theres 2options.
1 the second charge wins
2 rubick always wins


Why not both hit eachother or bara always wins?
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
September 14 2013 16:32 GMT
#12080
Because everytime i saw it, bara never won.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
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