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On August 16 2013 22:36 GreenGringo wrote:
I keep having problems with inv space.
Are you supposed to *always* keep a slot free for town portal? What is best, magic wand or a free slot for town portal scrolls?
yes, your problem is likely that you are overloading yourself with cost efficient, but slot inefficient items like wraith bands, null talismans, etc. you should always hold onto a tp scroll, if you dont have space then you either need to sell a cheap item like wand or stout or something, or if your in the very late game with no slots you can sell or dissassemble your boots and buy boots of travel.
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What carries work well with Razor if you are running him in the safe lane instead of mid? Or, when should I take Razor and when should I not? Thanks!
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Here's another question: under what set of conditions, early to mid game, is it worthwhile to go back to fountain and heal? Sometimes it feels like better bang for buck to call in some potions.
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If the courier is free I feel it's always worth it to fly in some potions because you'll miss a ton of exp and easily more than 100~150 gold of lasthits by going back to base.
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On August 16 2013 23:14 GreenGringo wrote:
Here's another question: under what set of conditions, early to mid game, is it worthwhile to go back to fountain and heal? Sometimes it feels like better bang for buck to call in some potions.
When you are VERY low on mana and/or HP and it's unsafe to stay in lane.
Say you just won a 1v1 fight in mid and killed the other enemy mid with ~10 % hp and mp left. He's going to be alive and TP'ing to tower any second so you have to run regardless so then you might as well go back to base and use a TP to get back faster because you can't stay in lane either way.
I also feel like supports have a lot more leeway in going back to base. If your trilane just won a fight and you need to heal badly your more a liability in lane than anything else. Give your carry whatever regen you have and go back to base, your lane still has 2 people getting XP and who should be able to stay safe.
In this situation I would probably buy a TP scroll as well but still walk back to lane, being ready to TP in if they towerdive. It's nice to have a TP to countergank with later on, you save a lot of money for a poor support early game and you still have people in lane getting XP.
Dual lanes are kind of similar, as long as there are at least 1 person in lane who can farm it safely your team as a whole doesn't lose as much.
Edit: So basically if the wave is pushed towards your tower or if they have 0 kill potential your lane partner should be fine.
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On August 16 2013 22:36 GreenGringo wrote:
I keep having problems with inv space.
Are you supposed to *always* keep a slot free for town portal? What is best, magic wand or a free slot for town portal scrolls?
Inventory space is something you have to keep in mind when thinking about you are going to buy.
You always want to have a tp scroll with you. There are exceptions to that, furion mostly, but unless you are absolutely sure have one on you.
One problem in the midgame is that one(at least I) often enough wants to have dust or sentries on oneself, or be able to pick up a gem midfight, so you want to have another slot at those times.
And then there's the obligatory magic wand, another slot. And boots.
So item builds aren't that easy and you can't build a ring of aquila and an urn of shadows on every hero(hello yango). What works from my experience is that you set out for one core item at the price range of 3k gold or higher, depending on your hero.
You begin by finishing boots whatever smaller item you think you will need, like basilius/urn/bottle/magic wand/pms etc.
After that you go straight your chosen core item, prefereably buying the largest parts first.
If you find yourself unable to survive in fights, not because you are getting sologanked but because of your lack of hp, then you can step back and buy a vitality booster or a bracer into drums.
In order of selling cheap items, never sell your boots. Hold onto a slot for the tp scroll as long as you can. The next 2 I would hold onto longer are magic wand and basilius/aquilius. What I would sell almost immediately are stout/poor man's shield and quelling blade.
Hope that is helpful
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All very helpful and interesting. What an awesome community this game has.
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On August 16 2013 23:14 GreenGringo wrote:
Here's another question: under what set of conditions, early to mid game, is it worthwhile to go back to fountain and heal? Sometimes it feels like better bang for buck to call in some potions.
Let's begin with the absolute.
If you have no more consumables and are at less out of mana(less than your cheapest spell) and you're health is under 25% or under 300, you should go to base immediately.
Other good guidelines are
-your manapool is too big to be refilled with just clarity pots, like for example lina with her 500-600 mana
-you miss 800 hp or more(you need more than 2 healthpots)
-if you have 4 or more small items in your stash, like branches, magic wand recipe, or small recipes in general
-your courier is very busy with important stuff(secret shop shopping, delivery of meaty items like black king bar)
-you need to reshuffle your inventory upon courier delivery(you would need to put items back in the courier)
The more these apply, the more I would want to go back to base. I expect it should mostly be low health or low health/low mana.
On August 16 2013 22:41 shiftY803 wrote:
What carries work well with Razor if you are running him in the safe lane instead of mid? Or, when should I take Razor and when should I not? Thanks!
I'm no expert on razor, but I had the impression razor was mostly used as a counterpick to heroes like outworld devourer and lone druid.
Normally I would expect another carry to be less affected by enemy bkbs/focused on dps.
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I'd say only go back to base as an absolute last resort generally. It's incredibly expensive to go back especially if you TP back out.
Missing a single wave is a potential 157+ gold lost and if you TP back out (which you'd need to have any hope of only missing one wave) that's another 135 gold on top of that. For that 300 gold you could get 1200hp in potions, 600 mana in clarities, or whatever else you need. Even if you only break even (say spending 300 gold on consumables) you'd still be getting XP in the latter case. If it's more expensive to get the healing salves/clarities it may still be worthwhile if you need levels more than XP.
The only time it'd be worth it is if...
-You can't last hit or XP leech due to being so low hp.
-The lane being too risky to stay in anyways due to possible ganks or tps.
-If you lack the gold to buy the consumables.
-If the courier is too pre-occupied to bring you consumables for the foreseeable future.
-If you intend to do something like TP to base then smoke gank another lane, jungle, or otherwise travel around the map.
The # of times you need to go to the fountain should be extraordinarily low in my experience. Generally stuff should either be killing you outright or you should be avoiding it well enough not to get so low that you need to go back to base. It should be the rare 'barely survived a gank' type situation where you back to base.
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This isn't TOO relevant, but suiciding for a free trip back to base is pretty underrated I think. If you have a bit of a showdown mid at around level 3 and you win by a hair but don't have regen etc left, it is faster to die (preferrably to rosh/neuts) and then TP back in than it is to run back to base. Spend what gold you can first, and don't forget gold from hero kills is reliable.
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Inventory space is a resource and in my opinion it is supposed to be used. Do not hesitate buying cheap cost efficient items early filling your inventory up, Sure you might lose 50% of your gold when selling it. But it is also a safe investment you will always be able to to sell it back for 50%. Especially when you are behind having a drum or a bracer is worth a lot more trying to defend your tower then 500-1500 unreliable gold is.
I remember loda buying two point boosters in an inhouse just to try to defend his highground. #bracergaming etc.
But in the end its all down to personal play style and preferences.
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On August 17 2013 00:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
This isn't TOO relevant, but suiciding for a free trip back to base is pretty underrated I think. If you have a bit of a showdown mid at around level 3 and you win by a hair but don't have regen etc left, it is faster to die (preferrably to rosh/neuts) and then TP back in than it is to run back to base. Spend what gold you can first, and don't forget gold from hero kills is reliable.
This seems like an interesting point I've been wondering about. When can/should you suicide to neutrals? As long as you spend unreliable gold before doing it there isn't much drawback to doing it in the early game right?
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On August 17 2013 01:24 njt7 wrote:
Inventory space is a resource and in my opinion it is supposed to be used. Do not hesitate buying cheap cost efficient items early filling your inventory up, Sure you might lose 50% of your gold when selling it. But it is also a safe investment you will always be able to to sell it back for 50%. Especially when you are behind having a drum or a bracer is worth a lot more trying to defend your tower then 500-1500 unreliable gold is.
I remember loda buying two point boosters in an inhouse just to try to defend his highground. #bracergaming etc.
But in the end its all down to personal play style and preferences.
I would put that in the category panic gaming. There should first be a plan what order to buy stuff and then ingame adaptions to it. Adapting your itembuild on the fly is not a simple to explain topic, though.
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On August 17 2013 03:15 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
This isn't TOO relevant, but suiciding for a free trip back to base is pretty underrated I think. If you have a bit of a showdown mid at around level 3 and you win by a hair but don't have regen etc left, it is faster to die (preferrably to rosh/neuts) and then TP back in than it is to run back to base. Spend what gold you can first, and don't forget gold from hero kills is reliable. This seems like an interesting point I've been wondering about. When can/should you suicide to neutrals? As long as you spend unreliable gold before doing it there isn't much drawback to doing it in the early game right?
Correct. The drawback is your 5-10 second spawn time (far shorter than the 30 second walk to base + heal time). And the chance that some enemy manages to randomly pick you off (a bounty hunter or w/e) but obviously you just have to be aware wats up.
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On August 17 2013 03:15 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
This isn't TOO relevant, but suiciding for a free trip back to base is pretty underrated I think. If you have a bit of a showdown mid at around level 3 and you win by a hair but don't have regen etc left, it is faster to die (preferrably to rosh/neuts) and then TP back in than it is to run back to base. Spend what gold you can first, and don't forget gold from hero kills is reliable. This seems like an interesting point I've been wondering about. When can/should you suicide to neutrals? As long as you spend unreliable gold before doing it there isn't much drawback to doing it in the early game right?
if you spend all your unreliable gold and you suicide before lvl 3 you come back in like literally a couple of seconds. you have nothing to lose other than having an ugly "1" to your deaths. but if you are higher lvled but still in the "early game", then usually its better not to. the respawn time will probably be longer than the time it takes for you to just walk back to base
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On August 17 2013 01:24 njt7 wrote:
Inventory space is a resource and in my opinion it is supposed to be used. Do not hesitate buying cheap cost efficient items early filling your inventory up, Sure you might lose 50% of your gold when selling it. But it is also a safe investment you will always be able to to sell it back for 50%. Especially when you are behind having a drum or a bracer is worth a lot more trying to defend your tower then 500-1500 unreliable gold is.
I remember loda buying two point boosters in an inhouse just to try to defend his highground. #bracergaming etc.
But in the end its all down to personal play style and preferences.
if you do this you'd probably want to make sure you're only spending unreliable gold on such cheap items. Save your reliable gold for the more expensive stuff you need later.
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On August 17 2013 03:22 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 03:15 Jonoman92 wrote:On August 17 2013 00:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
This isn't TOO relevant, but suiciding for a free trip back to base is pretty underrated I think. If you have a bit of a showdown mid at around level 3 and you win by a hair but don't have regen etc left, it is faster to die (preferrably to rosh/neuts) and then TP back in than it is to run back to base. Spend what gold you can first, and don't forget gold from hero kills is reliable. This seems like an interesting point I've been wondering about. When can/should you suicide to neutrals? As long as you spend unreliable gold before doing it there isn't much drawback to doing it in the early game right? if you spend all your unreliable gold and you suicide before lvl 3 you come back in like literally a couple of seconds. you have nothing to lose other than having an ugly "1" to your deaths. but if you are higher lvled but still in the "early game", then usually its better not to. the respawn time will probably be longer than the time it takes for you to just walk back to base
Anything up to level 5 or even 6 is usually fine. It takes a long time to walk back and you also have a longer stay at the fountain. The issue is if you can spend all your gold on useful stuff before you die.
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On August 16 2013 22:41 shiftY803 wrote:
What carries work well with Razor if you are running him in the safe lane instead of mid? Or, when should I take Razor and when should I not? Thanks!
Someone more knowledgeable than me about Razor can prove me wrong or expand upon me, but I've always viewed Razor as a counter pick that fits in dual or tri core set ups. You'll typically want Razor to counter Lone Druid bear or melee (mostly Strength) carries that will have a hard time running from Static Link. And you'll want Razor to not be the only carry either. Other carries who favor dual core set ups like Dragon Knight, Weaver, ect. work well with Razor.
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If an enemy is killed by neutrals, are you still rewarded with exp if you're in exp range?
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You get "assist gold" but no EXP.
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EPT
