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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 506

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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pyro19
Profile Joined August 2010
6575 Posts
July 02 2013 16:27 GMT
#10101
Does Medusa Ult go through BKB?
Thy Shall Die Alone...or emm..something like that.
Shootemup.
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1044 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 16:39:08
July 02 2013 16:37 GMT
#10102
On July 03 2013 01:08 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 01:00 Shootemup. wrote:
On July 02 2013 20:07 woreyour wrote:
Rod of Atos, what do you think about this item? I see it is nice for those int intensive need of heroes like outworld devourer or silencer but who else do you think needs this or whats heroes are good with this? Any Str or Agi heroes who have ideas with?

I really like it on Timbersaw. The extra HP is awesome, and when paired with something like a Eul's it really helps your mana problems.

Shredder should just be getting Bloodstone. After that, your mana is handled by maintaining Bloodstone charges.

Eul's + Atos spends way too much on stats the hero doesn't want/need.

In most games I play Timbersaw in the offlane and find that my Bloodstone would be delayed due to lack of farm (usually I would get it around 25-30 mins) and the pieces it builds out of don't offer you much before you combine them. Since that is when I am fighting, I really like to build items that help me fight now (Arcane Boots/Wand/Urn -> Atos -> Eul's). Plus the Atos and Eul's are just nice to have. Since Chakram doesn't slow much unless the target has low health, the Atos is nice since it helps hold them down until you can lower their health with a combo. Eul's is really nice if you are being focused in a teamfight, as you can Eul's yourself and Timberchain away, even if you used Timberchain right before.

It is entirely possible that I am wrong, but that is just what I have found playing Timbersaw in 6.78.

On July 03 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote:
Euls is pretty OK on timber afaik but atos doesn't really do much for him. He needs a dedicated mana item (preferably bloodstone or sheep) not some terrible +20int atos, and the slow is barely relevant because timber is twice as mobile as any hero a slow would affect, plus his ult slows already. The HP is nice but way overcosted (3.1K lol), just buy a bloodstone.

But yeah, Euls is sick. Chain in, toss out an ulti and blow your otehr ability, fly yourself, and by the time you come down all your abilities are up again. Its also a great way to deal with silences (which really screw timbersaw over). Plus your ult can have been out the whole time. Its kinda a shame the "run faster" part does actual nothing on the hero.


My thought was that combining the +int of the Atos with the +150% mana regen on the Eul's would solve the mana issues, maybe I should try just rushing the Eul's instead of the Atos and sticking with a casual vit booster?
"Dirty Timber Picker" Mity Teem Larquad. "I am a baddie and tango is a smartiepants." -KwarK "When you said you didn't play Invoker I thought you were just being modest"
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
July 02 2013 16:48 GMT
#10103
Well, if you have arcanes and a "casual vit booster", then bloodstone is only 2950 away. Which is the cost of a euls, essentially. So just go bloodstone. Also, just go casual point booster over casual vit booster.

(If you didn't know, you can disassemble your arcane boots to acquire the energy booster for your bloodstone)
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
July 02 2013 16:52 GMT
#10104
On July 03 2013 01:27 pyro19 wrote:
Does Medusa Ult go through BKB?


it does.
Shootemup.
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1044 Posts
July 02 2013 16:55 GMT
#10105
On July 03 2013 01:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well, if you have arcanes and a "casual vit booster", then bloodstone is only 2950 away. Which is the cost of a euls, essentially. So just go bloodstone. Also, just go casual point booster over casual vit booster.

(If you didn't know, you can disassemble your arcane boots to acquire the energy booster for your bloodstone)

Good point, I guess I wasn't really considering the cost of the items I was building instead of Bloodstone.
"Dirty Timber Picker" Mity Teem Larquad. "I am a baddie and tango is a smartiepants." -KwarK "When you said you didn't play Invoker I thought you were just being modest"
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 02 2013 20:50 GMT
#10106
So I randomed Riki, got a nice 15 minute Diffusal...then realized...what do you get on Riki after Diffusal? I went Ogre Club -> Bfly -> BKB...then I was lost. I didn't go Vlads or SnY because a support got a Vlads and I couldn't hit an SnY timing before Butterfly. So...I just got a Crit because fuck yea raw damage. Between all of the items that give really nice damage, what should a Riki get? Skadi, Basher, Crit, MKB, ???
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 20:57:52
July 02 2013 20:56 GMT
#10107
Manta
BKB
Butter

In no particular order. It depends on how fast you need the BKB and if you can farm 3.3k gold for the eaglesong vs needing the cost-efficient yasha RIGHT NOW.

SnY is generally worse than manta because as Riki you traditionally want to manta stuff off of yourself (dust). If you don't want to go BKB and they lack a bounty/slardar and are buying sents/gem over dust, THEN the extra HP from an SnY is legit.

Mega-luxury (post butterfly) is probably abyssal. Skadi/Crit/MKB are all rejects since agi scales too well on you and you already have diffusal so skadi's slow doesn't stack.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
July 02 2013 21:01 GMT
#10108
Diffusal, BKB, Bfly is a good core. Throwing in a casual Yasha somewhere before the Bfly is nice. Everything else is situational, a support can get you vlads. If the enemy carry has evasion, MKB. Basher>Crit since locking down a target in your cloud is Riki's kill combo. Skadi seems fun.....too inefficient for a hard or competitive game.
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
July 02 2013 21:06 GMT
#10109
Manta before bfly in most games. Dispelling dust/silence is way too good when it comes with such great fighting stats
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 21:10:54
July 02 2013 21:07 GMT
#10110
Yea I forgot Diffusal was an Orb and wouldn't stack with Skadi. And yea, I was thinking about Manta, but the guy I was in teamspeak with said no...never gave a good reason though, so I just rushed Bfly. I'll definitely do Manta -> Bfly -> Basher next time (skipping one for MKB if I need True Strike & BKB thrown in somewhere when needed) next time...although i don't think I'll ever get another good Riki game lol
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 21:17:24
July 02 2013 21:16 GMT
#10111
On July 03 2013 06:06 Qbek wrote:
Manta before bfly in most games. Dispelling dust/silence is way too good when it comes with such great fighting stats

You have both Diffusal and BKB. Needing a 3rd dispel past that is actually quite rare unless you've used up your Diffusal charges, and your BKB duration is running low.

Manta's primary usefulness is for going high ground, because without Manta illusions, Riki is a poor hero for sieging a base with.
Moderator
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
July 02 2013 21:20 GMT
#10112
I think it's just me hating to use charges on BKB or diffu, i sometimes buy BKB and use it 20 minutes later the first time.

Anyway, agi is crucial on riki, it gives u 2.25 damage for most practical purposes (don't manfight as riki, you are a STEALTH ASSASSIN )
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
July 02 2013 21:45 GMT
#10113
On July 03 2013 06:16 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:06 Qbek wrote:
Manta before bfly in most games. Dispelling dust/silence is way too good when it comes with such great fighting stats

You have both Diffusal and BKB. Needing a 3rd dispel past that is actually quite rare unless you've used up your Diffusal charges, and your BKB duration is running low.

Manta's primary usefulness is for going high ground, because without Manta illusions, Riki is a poor hero for sieging a base with.

Its also just a nice all around item for him - gives a nice Agi pool (which double for him), gives pretty valuable move speed, and a little more survivability on top of the increased dps. A lot of times I would consider Butterfly over Manta, but I've gone to Manta sometimes after BKB. It depends on the situation.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 02 2013 21:46 GMT
#10114
Do Manta illusions get Riki's ult? lol
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
July 02 2013 21:47 GMT
#10115
On July 03 2013 06:46 Whole wrote:
Do Manta illusions get Riki's ult? lol


Illusions do get the permanent invis passive.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 22:48:21
July 02 2013 22:46 GMT
#10116
On the other hand sometimes fights are forced on you, and you can't just concentrate on only attacking from the back.
Backstab is physical damage too. After all backstab is conditional and therefore a gimmick.
A Butterfly is best case scenario just 97 damage for Riki and all other times just a regular Butterfly.

I would prefer a Basher/Abyssal after Diffu + (Butter or Manta). By the time you get there you should be, let's say lvl 16.
With your agi from levels and Diffu + Manta, you're sitting at about 120-130 agility already.
A Basher can ensure backstabs by stunning the enemy. A Butterfly only increases your agi by another 30 and gives some raw dps.
Just talking purely offensive items Abyssal is better thanButterfly.
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
July 02 2013 22:50 GMT
#10117
Manta illus also get diffusal blade. Manta is just an overall great item, and it has even better synergy with riki than with most heroes.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
July 03 2013 00:04 GMT
#10118
In most cases, a regular progression goes along the lines of this imo Diffusal --> BKB --> Yasha/Manta -->Bfly-->Basher/Abyssal. More often than not, BKB can't be substituted with Manta style. Being greedy and squeezing in a Yasha is really cost-effective but then to complete Manta then before BKB? You'll have to be the judge of how badly you need BKB on a game per game basis then.
BoxingKangaroo
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Japan955 Posts
July 03 2013 00:54 GMT
#10119
How do I make a bigger impact on the game as a position 5 support? (Normal bracket)

Lately I've been feeling that there's no downside to picking an all-carry team and that the team with the supports is at a disadvantage because they just cant compete late game. Currently I'm buying wards when I can and always carry a TP, though maybe I don't TP in to help gank as much as I should. What else can I do?
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 03 2013 02:02 GMT
#10120
You can buy all the wards you want, but you need to do something with that map vision. If you're up against literally 5 carries, you should pick an aggressive support with a stun or slow (Lion, Lina, Veno, VS, Bane, ect.), and dominate your lane by making the enemy dual carry lane unable to get last hits. And when mid game comes around, use that map vision to your advantage and go gank when you notice one enemy is likely to be alone farming the jungle because you see three enemies dicking around on the other side of the map. And try to rally your team to group up and push if you have an advantage.
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