Nigma Discussion - Page 13

Dracolich70

Denmark3820 Posts

May 15 2020 20:32 GMT

#241

On May 10 2020 00:42 Firebolt145 wrote:
Secret was them running an organisation and look where they are. I don't think you can just put the blame on that.

Well, it didn't last very long until they sold it.

laa.kiroskirin

Thailand2 Posts

May 29 2020 03:47 GMT

#242

It's possible that TI10 motivates them so this ESL looking good so far.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

May 29 2020 05:08 GMT

#243

On May 29 2020 12:47 laa.kiroskirin wrote:
It's possible that TI10 motivates them so this ESL looking good so far.

We dont even know when TI10 will take place, so I doubt same is the reason. They did not even practice for this tournament, but looks like they are slowly getting back into shape. The coming days will show how good they are as the top contenders of their group are coming with Vikin.GG, Liquid and Secret on the final day.

juuto

809 Posts

May 31 2020 16:13 GMT

#244

Man, I know this series didn't count for much but I'm so sick of seeing them playing 4 protect 1 in a patch where it couldn't be more impossible to pull off. They've already lost enough with this stupid fucking strat, give it up. The game doesn't allow the kind of diversity in strategies that they think it does anymore. Play the meta

kerpal

United Kingdom2695 Posts

June 01 2020 10:36 GMT

#245

would you say io+tiny is 4 protect 1? feels more like a push/deathball strat to me.

i wouldn't put it in the same category as an AM pick or something.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

June 01 2020 16:44 GMT

#246

It was a strat which they have been running several times with success, but at least at game 2 it was a 4p1-strat with amping up the heals and saves for Gyro from Weaver, Io and Dazzle + one hero with SK with a reliable stun for a setup…and it would have worked against most of the Teams as well. Secret did just play better in Game 2, Game 1 was an outdraft. Although GH is a god on Io, I feel like they need his playmaking-skills. That third game against Liquid, he did so much work on his Earth Spirit, you are not having the same options when you are just following Miracle on his farming patterns. Give him Rubick, Tusk or Earth Spirit and let him create chaos on the map.

Anyhow, going 6:1 without having scrimmed before is a very good showing after their lackluster results in the past tournaments. VP.P can be beaten if Kuro is not getting to creative with his drafts and pick heroes which are in the meta and suiting their playstyle.

juuto

809 Posts

June 03 2020 22:06 GMT

#247

Kuro is a huge liability as a player. It feels like the gap between him and other Pos 5 players gets larger and larger as time goes on. He's completely unimpressive or straight up game losing as a player. His last Weaver game was a complete embarrassment.

For a team that's lazy as hell, I guess they're doing okay, but I wish we weren't dealing with a team plagued by an endless amount of complacency and laziness.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

June 04 2020 07:22 GMT

#248

fn identified in game 3 what Nigma´s strongest hero was with MC´s beastmaster and adressed same in the first banning phase while Kuro did not ban out the Earthshaker(strangely enough VPP did ban out Earthshaker by themselves in game 2) + give away the PL as last pick, although you know that epileptik1d is spamming that hero and your own draft has single target only.

ppd mentioned it already during drafting that Nigma tried to replace the Beastmaster with the Lycan which will not work as Lycan has no bkb-piercing stun, inferior vision game, no safe wave clear with Axes.

Feels like the old Puppey habit to try beating the opponents strongest strategy with the same draft and not make it easier for yourself by adjusting your bans. Definitely winnable series...

So...Ah shit, (lower bracket) here we go again.

Anamorph

236 Posts

June 04 2020 11:05 GMT

#249

Lycan was a fine pick - being not prepared for the PL pick is the fail. I could call it out without a problem.
Can not understand the troll ban instead.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

June 04 2020 11:25 GMT

#250

Yeah, in the one game where PL was the perfect pick, they did not ban it, although I can understand the Troll-ban as well. Troll can stand against Lycan and MK the whole game, they just did not expect that the remaining four players of VPP would be able to make the space for PL to come online. With DP, Shaker, Cent and Bane they had four strong heroes for teamfights and to be fair, VPP played this pretty well in that game. On top, at their possible best timing, Nigma fucked up at the Rosh pit when GH was clearing bot and not able to connect in time at the pit. When he arrived, w33 was nearly dead by a full duration ult of bane, giving him no option to somehow disrupt their earthshake/centaur-combo and forced to buyback. MC and Miracle have been in the center of a perfect echo slam and Kuro was not able to cancel anything by himself as well.

MintberryCrunchs

Germany462 Posts

June 04 2020 12:54 GMT

#251

I agree, not banning PL over Troll was questionable. although it also is kind of a "pick your poison" situation anyways.

I do really appreciate the change in drafting during that series (didnt watch much nigma, maybe they played like this before?).
Giving more space and priority to Mind Control and making him an integral part of their strategy while shifting Wee even more towards a space creating/sacrificial mid player seems like a very promising approach and the right and much needed change.
I was also pleasantly surprised by Wee's Invoker. I think they all played well and had a lot of synergy and the loss was mostly due to a tactical/drafting mistake that tipped the favor towards VPP

juuto

809 Posts

June 05 2020 16:43 GMT

#252

This team is just too fucking lazy. I don't even know how to feel about the drafts anymore because every draft looks bad when Kuro is such a ridiculously low skill player compared every other Pos 5 player. If 1/5 of your members doesn't play pubs or practice, of course, your drafts will look bad once that player's low skill loses you the game.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

June 09 2020 17:36 GMT

#253

Although I agree that they are not hard trying to win anything, I do not agree that Kuro is a low skiled player, you are staying in the T1-scene for over a decade not without a reason.

Hope you had a look today on Kuro´s plays if not watch at least game 3 of their series against Liquid...a lot of game changing swaps/plays from this "ridicolously low skilled" player. Everybody is looking bad against Puppey currently...

Surviving the elimination game for now which gives us at least two more series.

juuto

809 Posts

June 10 2020 16:17 GMT

#254

On June 10 2020 02:36 Rufus Dupres wrote:
Although I agree that they are not hard trying to win anything, I do not agree that Kuro is a low skiled player, you are staying in the T1-scene for over a decade not without a reason.

Hope you had a look today on Kuro´s plays if not watch at least game 3 of their series against Liquid...a lot of game changing swaps/plays from this "ridicolously low skilled" player. Everybody is looking bad against Puppey currently...

Surviving the elimination game for now which gives us at least two more series.

While other pos 5 players are fighting for top spots on the leaderboards, Kuro is nowhere near them. He's known for not playing much pubs and now the team is admitting multiple times to not scrimming. So when does he even play the game outside of officials?

We'd not have any games to judge them on if they actually had to earn their spots in these tournaments instead of relying on their popularity and a pandemic to get them free spots into events. T1 players should be held to a high standard and Kuro is probably one of the lowest MMR players currently on a pro team at that level. He 100% deserves the criticism.

Rufus Dupres

Germany1071 Posts

June 10 2020 18:11 GMT

#255

On June 11 2020 01:17 juuto wrote:
We'd not have any games to judge them on if they actually had to earn their spots in these tournaments instead of relying on their popularity and a pandemic to get them free spots into events. T1 players should be held to a high standard and Kuro is probably one of the lowest MMR players currently on a pro team at that level. He 100% deserves the criticism.

This is purely theoretical, it may also be that they would just show up in this time of the year as they did in the past three years. We just dont know how they would be playing without the COVID-19 restrictions.
The lack of scrimming/bootcamping is causing them the same troubles like it does for OG. In addition, 3 of Nigma are playing on a ping of abt. 120, not ideal as well.

Today again, his plays were not the reason why they lost to Secret, the loss in game 1 lies purely on the cores with not going for BKB except w33 and getting caught out of position multiple times and being blown up right at the start of a fight. They are slowly improving, basically winning two laning stages against Secret is already something many teams have not been capable of doing.

NInoff

Bulgaria1105 Posts

June 13 2020 13:28 GMT

#256

Kuro has been losing to OG for 2 years the same way. They draft the run at you lineup, and Miracle tries to farm for 25 minuites and It ends in disaster every time. Maybe they need another year or so to figure it out. Not to mention that they pretty much had 5 stuns, and OG had no saves and it resulted in 0 smokes in the entire game - smoke - stun in to stun in to stun pick and so on.
There is a term for when you do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome, but i wont state it here out of respect.

Sapaio

Denmark2037 Posts

June 13 2020 14:21 GMT

#257

Game 2 was a different draft from Nigma. The W33po that they have won with before against OG.

juuto

809 Posts

June 13 2020 14:32 GMT

#258

I wish I could say Nigma is looking like they're back because got 3rd place at an online tournament but we're not talking about an actual normal team here so they could easily go back to being eliminated in the group stage of the next tournament.

Geisterkarle

Germany3257 Posts

June 13 2020 20:23 GMT

#259

I couldn't watch (have to check VOD...) what happened in game two? Stats don't look bad for Nigma and Meepo. Looks like "one lost team fight, go won mid, win!" or something...
Also: An era came to an end! Before that game the last time Nigma lost with w33po was group stages TI9 vs Secret! That is quite a streak for that hero!

midou

Bulgaria1168 Posts

June 14 2020 17:54 GMT

#260

I have not been following dota and nigma so much in the last year, just the big tournaments.
Why did they replace Matu with W33 when they pick viper/pugna mid all the time...

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