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Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 1518

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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fixed_point
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany4891 Posts
April 28 2015 08:41 GMT
#30341
On April 28 2015 17:39 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 10:34 tehh4ck3r wrote:
Holy fuck torte is gonna have his work cut out for him rofl


yeah jesus christ, this patch is such a bitch because Valve takes forever to implement new items into the cloud server and 2. because every fucking hero just had their item pool tripled.

fucking hell

It'd be much appreciated man.

In the meantime who would like to lose MMR with me?
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
April 28 2015 08:45 GMT
#30342
lmfao beastmaster one of the better heroes right now got a huge ass buff whats happening
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
April 28 2015 08:47 GMT
#30343
was the patch this close to TI last year?

this patch coincidentally makes bulldog relevant once again
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28102 Posts
April 28 2015 08:54 GMT
#30344
6.81 was roughly the same time last year I think.
Administrator
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28102 Posts
April 28 2015 08:55 GMT
#30345
Actually yeah literally 52 weeks ago http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/452365-patch-681

6.82/6.83 were both after TI4.
Administrator
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
April 28 2015 08:58 GMT
#30346
[image loading]
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
fixed_point
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany4891 Posts
April 28 2015 09:04 GMT
#30347
That is disgusting.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
April 28 2015 09:44 GMT
#30348
ROFL
told ya beastmaster will get buffs
all my hero pool got buffed ez 7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
April 28 2015 09:55 GMT
#30349
I am just glad so much changed. Havent played dota 2 in many weeks since hated this current meta. I was hoping for a change and well, we got one hell of a change.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7754 Posts
April 28 2015 10:15 GMT
#30350
Seems like supports got some love with CM/SD buffs as well as new items and the ward slot changes.

Well the important thing in the end is that no more hoho haha and pro skilz Troll.
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 28 2015 10:28 GMT
#30351
I actually loved the 6.83 meta, but I hardly played at all for some reason. It's quite strange.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
April 28 2015 10:31 GMT
#30352
probably why you loved it too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
April 28 2015 10:31 GMT
#30353
On April 28 2015 19:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
I actually loved the 6.83 meta, but I hardly played at all for some reason. It's quite strange.

how can you truly (not) appreciate the meta if you didnt even experience it firsthand
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 28 2015 10:41 GMT
#30354
On April 28 2015 19:31 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 19:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
I actually loved the 6.83 meta, but I hardly played at all for some reason. It's quite strange.

how can you truly (not) appreciate the meta if you didnt even experience it firsthand


Sorry, I meant to write: "towards the end I hardly played".
In terms of hero balance, everything was straight-forward and linear, I think everyone hated that while I preferred it as orderly as it is
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
dismiss
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom3341 Posts
April 28 2015 10:46 GMT
#30355
Ho ho ha ha, I am a bit bored so I scribbled my innitial thoughts on this patch down:

Mechanics

-Yay less comeback gold

-Wtf stupid supports get more gold from kills now and carries get less, actually makes it harder to win games by yourself but probably will make pro games more interesting to watch since the revent trend to make people ward bitches again

-same with bounty changes, hitting neutrals is not better comparative value than before, also yay ursa nerf, fuck that red bully

-Hitting creeps after a bb is good again, yay for that! Overall will punish you harder for having to buyback though, after watching SL that can't possibly be a bad thing. Given how hard the comback mechanic got hit it may make games really one sided again. I believe this and comback gold/exp will be tweaked again soon in 6.84b.

-Crimson guard is even more ass now, huge vanguard 6.7x tier noobtrap :D

-Hex is worse now, but not substantially

Heroes


A

-Alchemist: More utility for 30+ Min carry alchemist or next level supporting? Probably both more of a pipedream rather than actually useful
-AA:Yay, you can do something vs idiot pub AAs slowing down your tower pushes?
-Axe: Spin is mostly an Axe nerf for baddies who spam clicked him, Taunt shouldn't be much worse off

B

-Bat: Meh, Icefrog should just rework the hero if he's going to continue nerfing him, at least he can kill mud golems now ho ho ha ha
-BM: You actually need a support in lane for a while now?
-BH: Shuri nerf over all, level 1 dmg is crazy but usability went down a lot for the squishy dagon builds, gold visibility is good, but mostly for pubs

C

-Centaur: Rofl wtf in games where you're not far enough behind to need force this is insane, huge in sieges and rosh
-Bone: Actually a viable Chen/Ench counter with dual Death Pact dmg now. :D
-CM: early game nerf, wat? Hero's still trash

D

-DS: still won't get wall before lvl 10
-DK: Tri core meta with cent anyone? Probably still awkward at best against most common midlaners

E

-ES: Ebola still broken, but probably a bit less dangerous for your carry now
-Ench: Ho ho, carry ench for everyone, but not really, still too squishy to nukes which are the name of the game right now

[centerJ[/center]
-Jug: Mostly nerfed by the mom change, spin CD won't matter too much, CD really wasn't the important bit about, solo killing is harder now though, overall surprisingly little nerfs to the spin trifecta

K

-Kotol: Is still kotol, too clunky to be useful most of the time
-Kunka: Casting torrent without having to turn? Nica! Although not enough to make the hero see play as a core again.

L

-LC: Actually one of the more interesting Ult sticks, probably still loses out to buying actually efficient tank stats though, you could have most of an AC/Skadi/Heart for the money
-Naix: Now you lose 3 guys in situations where your play doesn't work out? Great! And you wasted 4k as well as a slot? Even better! Doesn't give him much of what he wants.
-Lina: Hero is broken as shit and no substantial nerf, will be one of the worst molesters in midlane this patch
-Sylla: We'll have to see if radiance makes his 20-25min push window good enough, probably still suffers from the too awkward build up, agha is trash, doesn't beef up your bear
-Luna: As most carries who got agha upgrades this patch suffers from the fact that she'd rather buy other stuff, maybe as a mid hero, but the low range probably is prohibitvely bad for that, imagine Luna vs Lina

M

-Morph: More interested in obtaining stats this way than

N

-Naga: More of the same, Aga is cool on support Naga, pretty trash on carry, Radiance buff is cool though
-Furi: Still has the underlying problem that he can't fight people, makes the only thing hes good at too hard, I was 15k ahead of every in a game yesterday and sitll barely managed to win teamfights against heroes who actually do things

N

-Nyx: Nyx, Nyx, Nyx, jk still probably doesn't want Agha, too expensive and makes him immobile, nice synergy with Axe, Mag and WW though

O

-Oracle: Was broken, now even dumber, much worse with slark though, which seemed to be the go to abuse combo
-OD: Prob still trash, there are better items than Agha to buy on him, as well as the fact that you probably don't want to have targets disrupted after your ult, prepare for some p6 tier trolling, with some Agi heroes being nerfed for mid, he's bound to see play here and there again though

P

-Pugna: You get an Aghs, and you get an Aghs! But we make his worse, okay I guess?

S

-SD: Cool buff, maybe we get a mid SD? Hehe, just kidding too immobile and no nukes, I apparently chronically underestimate this hero though. This is one of the few buffed heroes on whom an item progression including Agha makes sense though.
-Silencer: Buffed in lane, nerfed in teamfights. Probably still good.
-Sniper: Surprisingly little nerfs all around considering how dominant he was. But you can crush him in lane now if you bring enough regen to survive the innitial 5 shrapnel onslaught. Also significantly worse vs dodgelord and radiance carriers. Might drop out of the meta because he got nerfed but will still lead to a crushing lane victory if you outskill the other guy sufficiently. Like those changes a lot over all.
-Storm: Not nerfed enough, will still haunt all the games, maybe even overall net buff if you consider the items.

T

-Techies: Because we have to have a way in the game to make it last 90 minutes again, wouldn't be dota otherwise, right guys? Objectively pretty minor though. However it will shut down your ability to push for at least a minute, techies sucks.
-Tinker: Slight buffs again, but still Tinker Agha. Rearm still too expensive to level before 2 items. Laser is nice, but doesn't fit in Tinkers playstyle well, in fights you'd rather hex people, so overall the blind will be not too impactful.
-Troll: Fuck that guy, now has a significantly weaker early game. Will still be an annoying one man wrecking crew after 25 min though, especially if the game permits you to get an abyssal now.
-Tusk: Probably still too clunky to lane wlel enough for him to be viable, overall upgrade for teamfights though.

U

-Ursa: If only you could use Enrage while stunned, I will defer to the graphlord when it comes to ursas viability, but until he shows up Ursa is trash.

V

-Visage: Huge buff, will see play again if your team can create space for farming supports, which this patch will most likely allow you to.

W

-Weaver: Another Agi carry who can't realistically buy Agha, expect bone7 to buy it as a crazy offlane support weaver to dieback EE-Sama on any hero.
-WW: Thank god this hero got nerfed, since he's in CM people will spam him now.

Z

-Zeus: Patch of the burst midlaners, still crazy strong if left alone in any fight.

New Items

Certainly the category which holds the biggest changes of the patch in store for us, lots of exciting things here.

-Mango: Honestly I am more excited about the +1 regen, crazy good for midlaners if you can fit it in your item progression for the first five minutes, might be too impactful to make a blanket statement about its usefulnes for now. Alternatively it's too expensive and horrible. If I were to make any prediction I'd say that it gets change around a bit in 6.84b.

-Lotus Orb: Really expensive for the stats it provides, especially when they clash so drastically witht he utility it provides (the heroes who'd buy this don't wan life/mana regen at the point in time when they can afford this). If this has a place it'll probably be on a jungle like Enigma or Axe. The problem here is that those heroes generally want to be in the middle of fights for when this is best, though. If it removed stuns it'd be a no brainer replacement for a support linkens, crazy good buy against Bat though.

-Glimmer Cape: Weird, probably useless. This isn't an RPG with a cloak slot. n_n

-Guardian Greaves: 15 Armour for low targets is the kicker here. However it does in no way outweigh the huge cost of this. You could have a force/most of an Eul's instead of upgrading your Mek! Prohibitively expensive for supports, carries don't want arcanes. Even on a meka buying mid this'll be an investment too large to make before transitioning into carry items.

-Moon Shard: Can't think of any hero who'd natively make great use of this when compared to maelstrom/mjollnir. However it appears that these stack, so mega lategame stats, yay?

-Silver Edge: Tailor made for slark, probably kinda iffy for most other heroes though. If you want Lothar, SnY and Skadi as well as brawling people in melee this is great because you don't need the SnY anymore, otherwise probably skip this and sell your Lothar lategame for something better.

-Solar Crest: Really good, gives you both avenues that increase physical survivabiliy, really slot efficient, why would anyone buy crimson anymore.

-Octarine Core: Meh, the components are crazy expensive. It provides buffs that you want during the early stages but has the price point of a late game item. If it works with true Dmg it'll be crazy good on QoP, Lina and Invoker. Zeus loves this too. The real decision you have to make here is whether or not you can stomach the horrendous build-up when compared to something like Euls or alternatively purchase both items and not waste massive ammount of money of mana regen. However if you start working towards it past 30 min you're probably doing something wrong and should be slapped. Just get a Hex or Refresher instead, fool!

Existing Item Changes

-Wards: Cool for supports, will be annoyingly fiddly though unless you can change it by double tapping the item hotkey.
Buy 2 get 2: Great for pro games, allowing you a more diverse split of the early game buys. Horrible to no impact on pubs, I expect to see less wards early on if anything changes.

-BoT: More crazy mega lategame upgrades. Probably not even in the item progression for Tinker until he has 3+ items.

-Basher/Abyssal: Overall good, albeit minor nerf to those items. I like.

-Mana Booties: Prob still worse than Tranq/Soulring. Healing and running are good things to do.

-QB: Ice Frog wants people to nuke each other really hard apparently so farming gets hit a bit, shouldn't really effect your timings too much though, considering that most heroes don't even have a lot of +dmg early on it might even speed up your 5-15min farm marginally.

-BF: Nice for the first few minutes of owning it, afterwards BF buyers are usually capped by the availability of creeps, not the speed they kill them at. For fighting it's probably a minor nerf. Although a 60 diameter upgrade to your cleave is huge.

-Blademail: Another thing that went in the wrong direction imo. buff here to combat burstlords, but that's not what I wanted from this patch anyway. Even more annoying than before.

-Vanguard/Crimson: Got demoted from trash to dumpster with the nerf to ability blocking. Maybe, maybe you can still get a Vanguard on certain heroes with immense early game tanking needs. Never go crimson.

-Deso: Haven't calculated the dmg/gold change on this. Still an awkward early midgame item without a good build up. Not so great later on because it blocks the orb slot as well.

-Skadi: Probably should have gotten nerfed more, really good item.

-Ghost Sceptre: I don't understand this nerf, 100g less for -6 stats is not a good bargain, not even on supports.

-Reaver/Heart: Marginally easier buildup and overall increased regen in fights if you manage to disengage yourself. Now an even better buy on PL and AM who can manage to do so easily.

-Stick: Much needed change for such an early game item, so much better now without the recipe going to waste. n_n

-MoM: Ho ho ha ha, I hate this item. Greatly reduced kiting/chase power. Good!

-Necro: I wonder if there's a situation that calls for a necro1 into other items now that the upgrades have become that much worse compared to the increase they granted before. If that's the case it's great, most likely it won't be the case though and you jsut get that bit of extra milage out of your necro1. It's okay.

-Radiance: Radiance has its fair share of problems, this addresses few of them, still a mega awkward build up and by itself not enough on most radiance buying heroes since nukes slay you. Great for Sillybear who doesn't have this problem. If you manage to get him a 15 min Radi you most likely won the game anyway, though. So it might end up being more of a "win more" buff without a huge impact on drafting decisions.

-Stout: Overall nerf to early game survivability of non spellcaster burstlords. By now we see a theme to these patch notes, yes?

-Veil: Small buff, still a niche item due to its cost and build up as well as usefulnes when compared to utility items. But we're bursting fools realy hard this patch, so one might be worth picking up if you manage to snag Zeus+Lina.

-Vlads: Ranged carries who'll benefit from this will SUCK this patch apparently, meh.

Excuse any typos, if they offend you, pm me and I'll fix them, too lazy for now. At least Emolater can't complain that we irc people don't add value to TLLD instead of just complaining about lazy writers anymore. Maybe I should post this as a blog instead?
Failure to improve posting standards will result in a lengthy ban. I <crms_> !dumb <GeoffAnderson> crmsdota <crms_> damnit
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
April 28 2015 10:56 GMT
#30356
On April 28 2015 19:46 dismiss wrote:

L


-Sylla: We'll have to see if radiance makes his 20-25min push window good enough, probably still suffers from the too awkward build up, agha is trash, doesn't beef up your bear



I believe the point of Aghs on LD is that when you get your bear 6 slotted or close, you can get an aghs on hero, and the bear can roam the world. It is quite good, but you won't do it any time soon.
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
dismiss
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom3341 Posts
April 28 2015 11:00 GMT
#30357
On April 28 2015 19:56 TMG26 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 19:46 dismiss wrote:

L


-Sylla: We'll have to see if radiance makes his 20-25min push window good enough, probably still suffers from the too awkward build up, agha is trash, doesn't beef up your bear



I believe the point of Aghs on LD is that when you get your bear 6 slotted or close, you can get an aghs on hero, and the bear can roam the world. It is quite good, but you won't do it any time soon.

By the time you have 6 items on bear you have either won or lost the game though. Sylla traditionally has the chance to work towards 2 points at which he's strong compared to other carries. The first one being his radiance timing push and the second one the AC push. If you don't win with those your prospect of winning the game is rather dire indeed. You'd still rather get something like basher/sheep/pipe I believe.
Failure to improve posting standards will result in a lengthy ban. I <crms_> !dumb <GeoffAnderson> crmsdota <crms_> damnit
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 28 2015 11:13 GMT
#30358
Dreading all the people who take LC into the jungle because her lift steal is better. Viable or not(I can't tell without playing) there is no way they will rush a blink dagger to get shit done.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
dismiss
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United Kingdom3341 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 11:15:14
April 28 2015 11:14 GMT
#30359
Jungle Lc sucks anyway. :D
Failure to improve posting standards will result in a lengthy ban. I <crms_> !dumb <GeoffAnderson> crmsdota <crms_> damnit
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44290 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-28 11:35:37
April 28 2015 11:27 GMT
#30360
@dismiss: blog that !


On April 28 2015 15:42 rebdomine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 15:13 goody153 wrote:
my friend said we are first picking alch all the time and pooling allies aghs

it's gonna be glorious (or maybe it'll fail horribly most of the time)


yo let me know when this is gonna happen, pool me an aghs as LD.

i know you have a LD flair but why LD why not Tiny or timber or maybe other new Broken aghs user like you know centaur

i have a feeling that i'll be the one playing the alch most of the time than playing the hero that is gonna get pooled with aghs but sure !

On April 28 2015 15:59 ykl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 15:13 goody153 wrote:
my friend said we are first picking alch all the time and pooling allies aghs

it's gonna be glorious (or maybe it'll fail horribly most of the time)

Time to pick Skywrath every game and farm Octarine first.


alright this settles it i'm playing the sacrificial pooling alchemist but whoever gets the aghs should be the fattest
this is a quote
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