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General Discussion - Page 917

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Bash
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland1533 Posts
August 29 2012 16:22 GMT
#18321
Glad to see BH played like he should be, maybe we'll see less pubbies thinking Gondar is Antimage in pubs now.
I can't sing and I can't dance, but still I know how to clap my hands.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 16:38 GMT
#18322
On August 30 2012 01:21 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2012 23:55 NB wrote:
The venom top pick was quite predictable actually. The thing is most carry-oriented team wana have a great support to shut down some early game tower diving bullshit that you could just do with enchan + tanky(NS panda) + stun(SK VS) from level 1 in the offensive tri lane(seen in several top EU teams). The hero has a sick sick counter pushing mechanic for turle and most of all his slow goes through BKB. The main problem is that to utilize the ulti well, you have to drag out the teamfight and that itself requires some sick AoE train meaning your line up has to get a lot of level early on. So you wana have a good late game carry while still maintain sick AoE teamfight control -> Dark Seer, Naga top ban pick -_-..... Enigma would synergy well too but Rubick can counter him way too easy.

Compare to CM pick, Venom is just way better all round bc he can farm the ancient very early on provide additional income to team. If you watch games of mTw, the especially reserve their ancient camp for venom to just sit there 5-10mins and level up.

CM can actually farm the jungle far earlier than veno. Her w lasts 10 seconds on almost all neutrals, doing 700 damage plus auto attacks. Her poor ms, now extremely weak aura(due to arcane boots), and lack of pushing are why veno outclasses her. Veno is both a better pusher and antipusher and more useful with less experience after the changes to her q which no longer has the extremely long lasting slow at level 1 that his has retained. In addition veno has much more reliable ultimate that doesn't require channeling.

jungle is for hard carry like AM and lone druid... venom is better at farming ancient camp which not every support can.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Yoshi-
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany10227 Posts
August 29 2012 16:38 GMT
#18323
Lol tobi stuck in Amsterdam for a full day
Crissaegrim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
2947 Posts
August 29 2012 16:39 GMT
#18324
CM will always have a place in my heart. More so, shes much more pleasing to look at, unless you are into tentacle porn.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 16:46:54
August 29 2012 16:40 GMT
#18325
On August 30 2012 00:41 NB wrote:
another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@

YYF usually stay on lane much longer than level 2 (and he's the only BH worth learning from IMO--all these other guys are phonies). Usually level 4/5 with at least Boots.

The amazing thing is that you watch every game of YYF's BH, and you see his skill order is different for every situation in every game.

On August 30 2012 00:34 rob.au wrote:
I heard something about getting stats as well because it helps you not get fucked up in the jungle doing the PMS, boots1, battlefury build. I don't play AM enough to actually test stuff though so no idea if true.

Stats just makes you farm faster in situations where you have uncontested farm. +2 all stats improves your ability to kill creeps far more than any of his other skills--that should be obvious.

There are games where you don't want to get any points of stats because the lane demands you have the other spells, but a lot of these games where the enemy chooses to leave AM to farm, or AM is essentially free-farming a 2v1/3v1, there's zero need to actually have his other skills yet. You just want level 4 blink before your Battle Fury is finished, and level 4 Spell Shield before major teamfights.
Moderator
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 16:52 GMT
#18326
On August 30 2012 01:40 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 00:41 NB wrote:
another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@

YYF usually stay on lane much longer than level 2 (and he's the only BH worth learning from IMO--all these other guys are phonies). Usually level 4/5 with at least Boots.

The amazing thing is that you watch every game of YYF's BH, and you see his skill order is different for every situation in every game.

Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 00:34 rob.au wrote:
I heard something about getting stats as well because it helps you not get fucked up in the jungle doing the PMS, boots1, battlefury build. I don't play AM enough to actually test stuff though so no idea if true.

Stats just makes you farm faster in situations where you have uncontested farm. +2 all stats improves your ability to kill creeps far more than any of his other skills--that should be obvious.

There are games where you don't want to get any points of stats because the lane demands you have the other spells, but a lot of these games where the enemy chooses to leave AM to farm, or AM is essentially free-farming a 2v1/3v1, there's zero need to actually have his other skills yet. You just want level 4 blink before your Battle Fury is finished, and level 4 Spell Shield before major teamfights.


I actually find Demon's BH in their game vs mouz is pretty interesting. Given a tiny bit of luck with the DD rune around 2 min? his BH has quite some synergy with invoker sunstrike and alone win the game for EG. Yeah YYF is good but iG is also using some weird combination in their line up that i think they could easily replace BH with a better pick so it was not much to learn.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
YODA_
Profile Joined June 2012
593 Posts
August 29 2012 18:24 GMT
#18327
On August 30 2012 01:20 Dead9 wrote:
pms is overkill a lot of the time, stout is usually enough

for stats just keep going until you feel like you need your other skills
pick up some more blink if you wanna farm faster, otherwise you generally just want to have spellshield and manaburn maxed or near-maxed by the time stuff starts happening (when you get your manta and start hitting things that aren't creeps)

I agree that it probably is unnecessary, but +6 agi without occupying another item slot, and for 300 gold is a little hard to pass up for me. That's 6 points of damage, +1 armor, and some AS. Unless you're going for some record bfury time, I don't see why you would pass it up.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 19:01:03
August 29 2012 18:56 GMT
#18328
PMS is actually surprisingly important on antimage, if u get the standard bfury timing, u'll notice that he cant freely clear jungle without the additional IAS and armor (as a tiny difference as they might seem) and a quelling, this is actually the rationale (as far as i can tell) of the -.1 base attack speed and -1 armor AM nerf back from when it was the strongest carry in the game.

it, just like quelling, more or less pays for itself after a few minutes of farming giving the additional efficiency imo, and having it in early teamfights does add a noticible amount of effective hp

this is also part of the rationale behind getting stats early game
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 29 2012 20:31 GMT
#18329
Yo, give me again your opinion on vanguard. Isnt it better on doom than on am ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
August 29 2012 20:35 GMT
#18330
Doom with 0 armor? yeah. damage block gets worse the more armor you have
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 20:46 GMT
#18331
Cant access to /r/dota2 bc obama is answering questions.... this is bullshit :3
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 22:42 GMT
#18332
DISCUSSION @LiveOnThree: KeSPA vs ESF: http://redd.it/z1lvo/ and DotA2 vs LoL for the MOBA crown: http://redd.it/z1l5m/ -


Sensational Journalism as always... Dont forget to let him know #fuckSlasher is a thing.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
August 29 2012 22:48 GMT
#18333
On August 30 2012 05:31 Erasme wrote:
Yo, give me again your opinion on vanguard. Isnt it better on doom than on am ?


Thing is, doom doesn't really need the extra hp. Tran>RoH, and you don't need any other boots. Only reason you would get it is because of the damage block, but you need to fix your armor problems anyway.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 30 2012 00:04 GMT
#18334
On August 30 2012 07:48 LAN-f34r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 05:31 Erasme wrote:
Yo, give me again your opinion on vanguard. Isnt it better on doom than on am ?


Thing is, doom doesn't really need the extra hp. Tran>RoH, and you don't need any other boots. Only reason you would get it is because of the damage block, but you need to fix your armor problems anyway.

I just wanted an explanation on the mechanic :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
August 30 2012 00:44 GMT
#18335
On August 30 2012 03:56 Kupon3ss wrote:
PMS is actually surprisingly important on antimage, if u get the standard bfury timing, u'll notice that he cant freely clear jungle without the additional IAS and armor (as a tiny difference as they might seem) and a quelling, this is actually the rationale (as far as i can tell) of the -.1 base attack speed and -1 armor AM nerf back from when it was the strongest carry in the game.

it, just like quelling, more or less pays for itself after a few minutes of farming giving the additional efficiency imo, and having it in early teamfights does add a noticible amount of effective hp

this is also part of the rationale behind getting stats early game

u can jungle pretty comfortably with a stout/hatchet/bfury by like level 10, probably earlier
a minute or so earlier on the bfury is a decent chunk of gold yo
pms does help in early teamfights but u can just avoid those anyway
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
August 30 2012 01:02 GMT
#18336
On August 30 2012 09:44 Dead9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 03:56 Kupon3ss wrote:
PMS is actually surprisingly important on antimage, if u get the standard bfury timing, u'll notice that he cant freely clear jungle without the additional IAS and armor (as a tiny difference as they might seem) and a quelling, this is actually the rationale (as far as i can tell) of the -.1 base attack speed and -1 armor AM nerf back from when it was the strongest carry in the game.

it, just like quelling, more or less pays for itself after a few minutes of farming giving the additional efficiency imo, and having it in early teamfights does add a noticible amount of effective hp

this is also part of the rationale behind getting stats early game

u can jungle pretty comfortably with a stout/hatchet/bfury by like level 10, probably earlier
a minute or so earlier on the bfury is a decent chunk of gold yo
pms does help in early teamfights but u can just avoid those anyway


pms is only 300 gold if you're gonna get a stout shield anyways...that isn't exactly a ton of gold ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
August 30 2012 01:05 GMT
#18337
and PMS reduces damage from heroes by quite a significant, will pay for itself, the 6 agi is good too.
WriterXiao8~~
ControlMonkey
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia3109 Posts
August 30 2012 01:08 GMT
#18338
On August 30 2012 01:40 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 00:41 NB wrote:
another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@

YYF usually stay on lane much longer than level 2 (and he's the only BH worth learning from IMO--all these other guys are phonies). Usually level 4/5 with at least Boots.

The amazing thing is that you watch every game of YYF's BH, and you see his skill order is different for every situation in every game.

Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 00:34 rob.au wrote:
I heard something about getting stats as well because it helps you not get fucked up in the jungle doing the PMS, boots1, battlefury build. I don't play AM enough to actually test stuff though so no idea if true.

Stats just makes you farm faster in situations where you have uncontested farm. +2 all stats improves your ability to kill creeps far more than any of his other skills--that should be obvious.

There are games where you don't want to get any points of stats because the lane demands you have the other spells, but a lot of these games where the enemy chooses to leave AM to farm, or AM is essentially free-farming a 2v1/3v1, there's zero need to actually have his other skills yet. You just want level 4 blink before your Battle Fury is finished, and level 4 Spell Shield before major teamfights.


When did you become a Battlecruiser?
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
August 30 2012 01:27 GMT
#18339
On August 30 2012 10:08 ControlMonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 01:40 TheYango wrote:
On August 30 2012 00:41 NB wrote:
another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@

YYF usually stay on lane much longer than level 2 (and he's the only BH worth learning from IMO--all these other guys are phonies). Usually level 4/5 with at least Boots.

The amazing thing is that you watch every game of YYF's BH, and you see his skill order is different for every situation in every game.

On August 30 2012 00:34 rob.au wrote:
I heard something about getting stats as well because it helps you not get fucked up in the jungle doing the PMS, boots1, battlefury build. I don't play AM enough to actually test stuff though so no idea if true.

Stats just makes you farm faster in situations where you have uncontested farm. +2 all stats improves your ability to kill creeps far more than any of his other skills--that should be obvious.

There are games where you don't want to get any points of stats because the lane demands you have the other spells, but a lot of these games where the enemy chooses to leave AM to farm, or AM is essentially free-farming a 2v1/3v1, there's zero need to actually have his other skills yet. You just want level 4 blink before your Battle Fury is finished, and level 4 Spell Shield before major teamfights.


When did you become a Battlecruiser?

When he became operational.

Just today
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
August 30 2012 01:28 GMT
#18340
lol Puppey on live on 3 atm

Na'vi practiced for 10 days total

oef.
WriterXiao8~~
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