• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:14
CET 08:14
KST 16:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage14Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll
Strategy
Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16385 users

General Discussion - Page 916

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 914 915 916 917 918 6534 Next
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
August 29 2012 15:09 GMT
#18301
Second question regarding my dear Indian with a Mohawk :
When do you get stats on him ? I saw a lot of AM get very early stats in lane, and I don't really know until where they go stats before going spells... :/
The legend of Darien lives on
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
August 29 2012 15:09 GMT
#18302
I've this carry enigma once. Sit in jungle 30 minutes straight go Radi mek BKB refresher hex AND IN THE END BLINk. We won the moment he got blink and would win earlier if he got blink as a 2nd item instead of 6th -.-
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 15:12:14
August 29 2012 15:11 GMT
#18303
On August 30 2012 00:09 mr_tolkien wrote:
Second question regarding my dear Indian with a Mohawk :
When do you get stats on him ? I saw a lot of AM get very early stats in lane, and I don't really know until where they go stats before going spells... :/

I never get stats before maxing spells, every single one of his spells is fantastic, dont know why you would level stats over them.
His spell shield is amazing, his mana break is amazing, blink is super x4 amazing. getting his passives will provide way more offensive and defensive power then stats could.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
August 29 2012 15:13 GMT
#18304
On August 30 2012 00:11 PassiveAce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 00:09 mr_tolkien wrote:
Second question regarding my dear Indian with a Mohawk :
When do you get stats on him ? I saw a lot of AM get very early stats in lane, and I don't really know until where they go stats before going spells... :/

I never get stats before maxing spells, every single one of his spells is fantastic, dont know why you would level stats over them.
His spell shield is amazing, his mana break is amazing, blink is super x4 amazing. getting his passives will provide way more offensive and defensive power then stats could.

Well, pro players seem to disagree with you, they nearly all get at least 2 or 3 points in stats early when they're going for hard carrying with him. I just fail to understand when and why, because to me it seems that his spells are wonderful !
The legend of Darien lives on
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 15:13 GMT
#18305
its fascinating to wake up after a long sleep, seeing the thread growth 2 pages after your last post.... thank god i got out of that Korean music thread :-/... also thank the starbuck coffee i boiled myself :3

Mean while, listening to twitch representative talking about "In-game client spectating just doesnt feel right" on twitter is just pure comedy... Ofc you just gota hate it when everyone talk about dota like a king, you have never played it in your life so you may as well talk bad about it :-/
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 15:17:07
August 29 2012 15:15 GMT
#18306
I dont think iv ever seen a game with an am who gets early stats, I have missed most of TI2 though, is that some new thing?
Personally it makes absolutely no sense to me. Spell shield provides godly defense, while mana break provides very powerful offensive power against heroes, usually you will level whichever one you need along with blink, which is itself a godly defensive or offensive spell.

all of his spells provide more value then stats, so I dont understand a stat build on am.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Narcind
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Sweden2489 Posts
August 29 2012 15:17 GMT
#18307
Burning has been doing it for a while, it gives you pretty good survivability from the extra strength (AM has quite low strength gain), and it helps you last hit a little with the extra 2 agility you get.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
August 29 2012 15:18 GMT
#18308
You won't be able to blink multiple times to go aggressive or blink away, because if you get caught after blink you will die anyway(courtesy of your poor hp pool)
You are unable to go aggressive as AM(also courtesy of your poor hp pool)because you will die once you blink in offensivly
1 point in spell shield is 26%(or so) so its great for 1 point.
Stats provide hp which is one of your biggest problems.

Dead Anti-Mages don't do anything with points in mana break or blink.
There are often situations where you do not need the hp pool but more then often you will, which is why its a good option to keep in mind. A lot of pro carry players do this too, like Burning.
WriterXiao8~~
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 15:19 GMT
#18309
On August 30 2012 00:09 Qbek wrote:
I've this carry enigma once. Sit in jungle 30 minutes straight go Radi mek BKB refresher hex AND IN THE END BLINk. We won the moment he got blink and would win earlier if he got blink as a 2nd item instead of 6th -.-

my idea initially was skipping ulti at level 6 to maximizing farmfit power... even skip it if needed bc you cant always secure a rubick pick. The plan rotate around letting lycan out of the banning pool while you get 2nd pick and build enigma tanky with rad for early game domination(enigma jungle out level lycan and rosh even faster than lycan). There is a few problem on how do you pick up VS without letting your line up have early strong laning... What is the best nuker in the game?

on AM getting stat: you often see this bc it let him last hit faster plus extra regen while not being farm contested. You also get it while enemy has a shadow demon... Burning on the match vs mouz(2nd game) took at least 4 points in stat before level 9 (1-1-1-1-1 and 4 stats).
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
August 29 2012 15:21 GMT
#18310
Well I cant argue with the most renowned am in the world, but early stats still makes me uncomfortable : (
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
August 29 2012 15:32 GMT
#18311
JoinDOTA
about an hour ago
Moose and Toby's flight to Seattle got cancelled. We are stuck here in the queue of the damned. We are not amoosed!


JoinDOTA
41 minutes ago
Apparently an old world war 2 bomb was found near Gate C. Damn those old goblin techies leaving their ultimates lying around from old Dota times and trying to ignite prematurely before their release in Dota 2!!


i lol'd
ffxiv enjoyer
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 15:33 GMT
#18312
hmmm there are 2 men that i would go gay for: bisu and this blonde



really glad Zenith letting Loda play the farm carry again
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-29 15:34:26
August 29 2012 15:34 GMT
#18313
On August 30 2012 00:32 DoNotDisturb wrote:
Show nested quote +
JoinDOTA
about an hour ago
Moose and Toby's flight to Seattle got cancelled. We are stuck here in the queue of the damned. We are not amoosed!


Show nested quote +
JoinDOTA
41 minutes ago
Apparently an old world war 2 bomb was found near Gate C. Damn those old goblin techies leaving their ultimates lying around from old Dota times and trying to ignite prematurely before their release in Dota 2!!


i lol'd

Crap sorry for leaving that there guys
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
rob.au
Profile Joined May 2010
1087 Posts
August 29 2012 15:34 GMT
#18314
I heard something about getting stats as well because it helps you not get fucked up in the jungle doing the PMS, boots1, battlefury build. I don't play AM enough to actually test stuff though so no idea if true.
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
August 29 2012 15:37 GMT
#18315
More than the viability, I was talking about the amount of points in stats :o 1, 2, 3 ?
The legend of Darien lives on
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 29 2012 15:41 GMT
#18316
4 points is the magic number... Also on this topic: if you watch the chinese invokers in this tournament, you can see how they only skill 2 Quas into level 3 and leave 1 point to see which way if better. Watching Yamateh vs Dendi mirror match up is just so inspiring (1st game QoP vs invoker, 2nd game invoker vs qop).

another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
YODA_
Profile Joined June 2012
593 Posts
August 29 2012 15:44 GMT
#18317
On August 29 2012 22:31 Firebolt145 wrote:
Vanguard has been nerfed so many times now that it becomes more worth it to just get tranquil boots + naked vitality booster for the same effect.

Naked vit booster, tranquils, and PMS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vanguard, and it's not even remotely close. For an extra 450 gold you also get Boots, +armor, +regen, and +6 agi. It's almost stupid how useless vanguard is looking at it like that. And the buildup is so easy you can basically assemble 70% of it on a per creep wave basis.

I would recommend a decently farming AM not totally free farming to go 2 sets of tangoes, stout, and agi slippers to start, then go PMS, tranquil, vit booster into bfury. Obviously skip the vit booster if you're getting a ton of farm, and skip the tranquils as well if you can get away with it, but you should have plenty of survivability and regen going that build while also not sacrificing too much gold for an item that will be worthless lategame. Once you start rocking bfury, manta, heart, and bfly, disassemble those tranquils and make some BoT.

I should mention that I firmly believe tranquil boots are the most OP item in the game for the cost. Two forms of hp regen, + armor, and more +movement speed than either treads or mana boots. Oh, and did I mention that you can disassemble it?? Obviously, they are not very effective in the middle of heavy combat, but for things like jungling and just regular laning presence they are AMAZING.
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
August 29 2012 16:09 GMT
#18318
On August 30 2012 00:41 NB wrote:
4 points is the magic number... Also on this topic: if you watch the chinese invokers in this tournament, you can see how they only skill 2 Quas into level 3 and leave 1 point to see which way if better. Watching Yamateh vs Dendi mirror match up is just so inspiring (1st game QoP vs invoker, 2nd game invoker vs qop).

another thing that i learned from TI2. When you send BH long lane, you wana get level 2 and start roaming everywhere with bottle @_@


it was mushi's qop that wrecked dendi in g1
ffxiv enjoyer
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
August 29 2012 16:20 GMT
#18319
pms is overkill a lot of the time, stout is usually enough

for stats just keep going until you feel like you need your other skills
pick up some more blink if you wanna farm faster, otherwise you generally just want to have spellshield and manaburn maxed or near-maxed by the time stuff starts happening (when you get your manta and start hitting things that aren't creeps)
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 29 2012 16:21 GMT
#18320
On August 29 2012 23:55 NB wrote:
The venom top pick was quite predictable actually. The thing is most carry-oriented team wana have a great support to shut down some early game tower diving bullshit that you could just do with enchan + tanky(NS panda) + stun(SK VS) from level 1 in the offensive tri lane(seen in several top EU teams). The hero has a sick sick counter pushing mechanic for turle and most of all his slow goes through BKB. The main problem is that to utilize the ulti well, you have to drag out the teamfight and that itself requires some sick AoE train meaning your line up has to get a lot of level early on. So you wana have a good late game carry while still maintain sick AoE teamfight control -> Dark Seer, Naga top ban pick -_-..... Enigma would synergy well too but Rubick can counter him way too easy.

Compare to CM pick, Venom is just way better all round bc he can farm the ancient very early on provide additional income to team. If you watch games of mTw, the especially reserve their ancient camp for venom to just sit there 5-10mins and level up.

CM can actually farm the jungle far earlier than veno. Her w lasts 10 seconds on almost all neutrals, doing 700 damage plus auto attacks. Her poor ms, now extremely weak aura(due to arcane boots), and lack of pushing are why veno outclasses her. Veno is both a better pusher and antipusher and more useful with less experience after the changes to her q which no longer has the extremely long lasting slow at level 1 that his has retained. In addition veno has much more reliable ultimate that doesn't require channeling.
Prev 1 914 915 916 917 918 6534 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech161
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 576
Free 176
Barracks 100
910 29
NaDa 22
NotJumperer 16
Noble 13
Icarus 11
Force[name] 6
Britney 0
League of Legends
JimRising 597
Counter-Strike
fl0m3281
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King136
Other Games
summit1g9156
WinterStarcraft374
C9.Mang0220
Happy188
NeuroSwarm77
Fuzer 65
KnowMe64
ViBE53
ceh92
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2215
League of Legends
• Rush1387
• Lourlo968
• Stunt446
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
2h 46m
KCM Race Survival
2h 46m
WardiTV Invitational
4h 46m
Lambo vs Shameless
Rogue vs uThermal
Percival vs YoungYakov
TBD vs GgMaChine
OSC
8h 46m
OSC
15h 46m
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 4h
OSC
1d 6h
OSC
1d 16h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
3 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-11
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.