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On August 16 2012 06:07 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 04:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 16 2012 01:28 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 22:10 Kipsate wrote:
I have smurf account to play with people who do not play in the same MMR bracket as I do. Same here. It's really sad how awful the MM will match players if you aren't relatively close in MMR. It's literally impossible for me to get good games with a few of my friends. They're complete stomps for or against us. I hate to say it cause HoN had so many issues but once you were at least 1800 the matches were matched so much better. You could queue with 1400 people and it'd still give you competitive games. I think the problem with dota's internal MM is that it's too vauge and broad. Right now all the player can see is "normal, high, very high" but the skill in these brackets have huge descrepancies. I mostly get 'very high' games unless the queue is taking forever or I'm queueing with friends that are 'high'. It's just odd though because while every now and again I'll get HIGH rated games, so does my handicap friend who is mostly in the normal grouping. If we both got a game against each other in 'HIGH' he would be utterly stomped as he's not very good. I hope they do something to fix the matchmaking because as it stands unless you're about dead even with the person you're queuing, the games are a crapshoot. And even then, there are a ton of bad games when it mixes 2+3, vs 4+1 or 2+3 vs 5, 2+3 vs 2+3, ugh it's a mess. It has a lot to do with team dynamics and how it's very hard to judge how people will work together. It's also very hard to judge a "very high" players ability to lead a group to victory. You know a lot about map control and where other heroes will be and cooldowns and such, but do you actively use that information to put your team in a winning position. Do you try to do so and they just don't listen? Simply put there are too many variables in team play to accurately represent them, especially when you're talking about multiple stacks like the 2+3 or 1+4s. Oh I never claimed it would be easy and fully understand the difficulties in matching 2 equal teams of 5. However I think if they added more variables to their rating (hopefully they do) it could lead to better match making. While Dota is by far the best game, the Dota 2 matchmaker is severely lacking when compared to HoN or LoL (less experience in this one) and is by far the worst.
Do you have anything besides anecdotal evidence to back this claim up?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 06:07 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 04:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 16 2012 01:28 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 22:10 Kipsate wrote:
I have smurf account to play with people who do not play in the same MMR bracket as I do. Same here. It's really sad how awful the MM will match players if you aren't relatively close in MMR. It's literally impossible for me to get good games with a few of my friends. They're complete stomps for or against us. I hate to say it cause HoN had so many issues but once you were at least 1800 the matches were matched so much better. You could queue with 1400 people and it'd still give you competitive games. I think the problem with dota's internal MM is that it's too vauge and broad. Right now all the player can see is "normal, high, very high" but the skill in these brackets have huge descrepancies. I mostly get 'very high' games unless the queue is taking forever or I'm queueing with friends that are 'high'. It's just odd though because while every now and again I'll get HIGH rated games, so does my handicap friend who is mostly in the normal grouping. If we both got a game against each other in 'HIGH' he would be utterly stomped as he's not very good. I hope they do something to fix the matchmaking because as it stands unless you're about dead even with the person you're queuing, the games are a crapshoot. And even then, there are a ton of bad games when it mixes 2+3, vs 4+1 or 2+3 vs 5, 2+3 vs 2+3, ugh it's a mess. It has a lot to do with team dynamics and how it's very hard to judge how people will work together. It's also very hard to judge a "very high" players ability to lead a group to victory. You know a lot about map control and where other heroes will be and cooldowns and such, but do you actively use that information to put your team in a winning position. Do you try to do so and they just don't listen? Simply put there are too many variables in team play to accurately represent them, especially when you're talking about multiple stacks like the 2+3 or 1+4s. Oh I never claimed it would be easy and fully understand the difficulties in matching 2 equal teams of 5. However I think if they added more variables to their rating (hopefully they do) it could lead to better match making. While Dota is by far the best game, the Dota 2 matchmaker is severely lacking when compared to HoN or LoL (less experience in this one) and is by far the worst.
I think that's largely due to the fact that LoL and HoN's matchmaking have separate queues depending on level of competitiveness. Whereas DotA 2 has everyone in one big queue.
Unless (or I should say, until) you start having separate queues for stuff like "Ranked Team Play", etc., you're going to have this hodgepodge of people who are looking to get different things out of the game.
Though I still believe that adding -EM to the game will make every other game mode 10000x better, because a lot of terrible players will just go play -EM.
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-em is so broken lol....
so let discuss on who is the best carrier in the world: AM vs PA vs Void ... thought?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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On August 16 2012 06:59 NB wrote:
-em is so broken lol....
so let discuss on who is the best carrier in the world: AM vs PA vs Void ... thought?
morph
e: lol i didnt see the above 
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Sylla? I guess it can depend on what you are really asking though.
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In a vacuum, void will always win. Period.
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On August 16 2012 07:11 Heh_ wrote:
In a vacuum, void will always win. Period.
ehhh. in a vacuum it's a 1 on 1. no game is a 1 on 1. and it should never matter how good a carry is in a vacuum only how good they are in a team. Morphling by far in that case. he's just too versatile not to be the best. sylla is better with good micro and a medium amount of luck and great farm.
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On August 16 2012 06:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 06:07 crms wrote:On August 16 2012 04:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On August 16 2012 01:28 crms wrote:On August 15 2012 22:10 Kipsate wrote:
I have smurf account to play with people who do not play in the same MMR bracket as I do. Same here. It's really sad how awful the MM will match players if you aren't relatively close in MMR. It's literally impossible for me to get good games with a few of my friends. They're complete stomps for or against us. I hate to say it cause HoN had so many issues but once you were at least 1800 the matches were matched so much better. You could queue with 1400 people and it'd still give you competitive games. I think the problem with dota's internal MM is that it's too vauge and broad. Right now all the player can see is "normal, high, very high" but the skill in these brackets have huge descrepancies. I mostly get 'very high' games unless the queue is taking forever or I'm queueing with friends that are 'high'. It's just odd though because while every now and again I'll get HIGH rated games, so does my handicap friend who is mostly in the normal grouping. If we both got a game against each other in 'HIGH' he would be utterly stomped as he's not very good. I hope they do something to fix the matchmaking because as it stands unless you're about dead even with the person you're queuing, the games are a crapshoot. And even then, there are a ton of bad games when it mixes 2+3, vs 4+1 or 2+3 vs 5, 2+3 vs 2+3, ugh it's a mess. It has a lot to do with team dynamics and how it's very hard to judge how people will work together. It's also very hard to judge a "very high" players ability to lead a group to victory. You know a lot about map control and where other heroes will be and cooldowns and such, but do you actively use that information to put your team in a winning position. Do you try to do so and they just don't listen? Simply put there are too many variables in team play to accurately represent them, especially when you're talking about multiple stacks like the 2+3 or 1+4s. Oh I never claimed it would be easy and fully understand the difficulties in matching 2 equal teams of 5. However I think if they added more variables to their rating (hopefully they do) it could lead to better match making. While Dota is by far the best game, the Dota 2 matchmaker is severely lacking when compared to HoN or LoL (less experience in this one) and is by far the worst. I think that's largely due to the fact that LoL and HoN's matchmaking have separate queues depending on level of competitiveness. Whereas DotA 2 has everyone in one big queue. Unless (or I should say, until) you start having separate queues for stuff like "Ranked Team Play", etc., you're going to have this hodgepodge of people who are looking to get different things out of the game. Though I still believe that adding -EM to the game will make every other game mode 10000x better, because a lot of terrible players will just go play -EM.
I think -EM may make low level games better, but I'm not sure if that would change the issue on high level games at all. If you can get to Very High on Valve's system, you probally aren't switching to it anyway. I think it's more the fact that Ranked play or any system with a ladder makes people take things more seriously and pubs in Dota were probally considered much less serious than matchmaking in HoN/LoL, so that kind of culture carries over and you get people doing weird stuff and being much harder to rank accuratelly.
I barely played the others, but do people in high rankings in LoL/HoN random as often as in Dota, for example?
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do you build mask of madness on morphling? probably not
do you build mask of madness on void? yes
therefore by superior item choice void wins
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On August 16 2012 07:21 FinestHour wrote:
do you build mask of madness on morphling? probably not
do you build mask of madness on void? yes
therefore by superior item choice void wins
That is unfaultable logic there
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On August 16 2012 07:21 FinestHour wrote:
do you build mask of madness on morphling? probably not
do you build mask of madness on void? yes
therefore by superior item choice void wins
maybe not your morphling
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Netherlands45349 Posts
You can build a mom on PA(or rather, everyone) and get rapiers for the biggest of crits(BIG, RED, BLOODY NUMBERS), you can even make them aoe if you want with bfury.
that beats void mom.
I am not familiar with HoN but in LoL as far as I know people in general WILL stick to the (encouraged) setup that Riot has set up for them , you will usually see AP mid, Jungle, Bruiser top and AD+Support bottom, I don't think I have seen anyone random even in Normals(blink pick).
Ranked is for dem points obviously so everyone tries hard(whether they succeed or fail is another question) the very nature of the game design that LoL has encourages certain team compositions(as stated above) so teams even in pubs usually consist of CM ''level'' picks(they don't synergize 100% always but they are good enough).
PA was the best -EM mode hero btw.
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eh... you can build buriza MKB butterfly + MoM on morph.... even though they said santanic is better :-/
I think i mis typed the question: What is the best hero in -em? 6 battle fury thought?
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On August 16 2012 08:00 NB wrote:
eh... you can build buriza MKB butterfly + MoM on morph.... even though they said santanic is better :-/
I think i mis typed the question: What is the best hero in -em? 6 battle fury thought?
kunkka
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 07:14 SKC wrote:
I barely played the others, but do people in high rankings in LoL/HoN random as often as in Dota, for example?
No, but at the same time, there's no bonus gold for random in LoL/HoN, so there's no real incentive to do so.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On August 16 2012 08:00 NB wrote:
eh... you can build buriza MKB butterfly + MoM on morph.... even though they said santanic is better :-/
I think i mis typed the question: What is the best hero in -em? 6 battle fury thought?
Lycan again probably.
haven't played -em in ages though so I can't say.
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2.6k hours and im not even an early beta tester... NOOB GABE NOOBBBBBBBBBB
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On August 16 2012 08:17 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 08:00 NB wrote:
eh... you can build buriza MKB butterfly + MoM on morph.... even though they said santanic is better :-/
I think i mis typed the question: What is the best hero in -em? 6 battle fury thought? Lycan again probably. haven't played -em in ages though so I can't say.
dotacash had it as ursa
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EPT
