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General Discussion - Page 802

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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 06 2012 19:55 GMT
#16021
On August 07 2012 04:32 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 03:40 flamewheel wrote:
this thread is becoming too memetic

is it anyhow related to the amount of 1 liner you have contributed? -_-

NEW TOPIC:

So recently, there has been several up/down in the western pro-scene. Any news on how the chinese and SEA teams are doing? Anyone has access to their scrim network?

zenith owns, lgd owns, orange is not doing as well as they should, al still in slump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Crissaegrim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
2947 Posts
August 06 2012 20:02 GMT
#16022
Im not trusting any performance I see until TI2 rolls around. Everything just seems so...unstable. Which is funny considering how many of these teams are currently bootcamping.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 20:03:00
August 06 2012 20:02 GMT
#16023
Its hard to say cause ping issues but I'd say its something like

Zenith>>LGD>iG>DK=Tonfgu=Orange

and then EHOME ???????? cause I haven't seen them in a while but they aren't as strong as LGD or Zenith thats for sure.

also WE is somewhere in the gutter in that list.

We will see at TI2 how things will work out anyway.
WriterXiao8~~
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
August 06 2012 20:12 GMT
#16024
On August 07 2012 05:02 Kipsate wrote:
Its hard to say cause ping issues but I'd say its something like

Zenith>>LGD>iG>DK=Tonfgu=Orange

and then EHOME ???????? cause I haven't seen them in a while but they aren't as strong as LGD or Zenith thats for sure.

also WE is somewhere in the gutter in that list.

We will see at TI2 how things will work out anyway.


Seems about accurate, tho Zenith has never played with ping parity vs a Chinese team while all the Chinese Teams have been spiting D1/D2, I personally believe that on Lan with D2 focus, LGD, iG, and DK (if inter team issues can be resolved) will be relatively even, if a bit weaker, to Zenith on LAN, especially given how terrible Zenith has looked without a ping advantage (also not giving a shit but still)
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 19:15:27
August 06 2012 20:58 GMT
#16025
T H E O R Y


      Why do I play this game? Assuming that every hero has an equal chance of being played in a game, it's likely that you'll never play the same game twice, especially with lane change-ups. This is the reason why you must out-think your opponent to win. You're thrust into new situations every time you play and you have to make an educated guess on your next optimal play based on experience and creativity (read: refined perspective). A solid player has perceptiveness/clairvoyance, patience, and preparedness.

The #1 question you should constantly ask yourself throughout the game...

What is the perfect play in this situation (that will help me close this game out eventually)?
You need to think of all possible actions and pick the seemingly best. Refine your understanding with the results.





The Essentials

-- EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST TEACHER, BUT SOME PEOPLE TAKE MORE FROM EACH EXPERIENCE THAN OTHERS

-- Kill the throne (obviously). That is the ultimate goal. Have a general strategy. Implement tactics. What are their threats? Nullify them. What are yours? Develop them. You need to close out the game. People always forget this and play their single-player RPG. ("Where did these 9 other players come from?")

-- Abuse the Stop command to immediately elevate your game. Always be ready to execute a stop command at a moment's notice and use it liberally. Why? (1) You can stop an insane number of spells that are going to miss (2) You will definitely improve your last-hitting when you can control your animations better (3) You can abruptly stop your hero from moving which is very useful and can be faster than issuing another right-click command.

-- Keep calm. This goes for both stronger and weaker players. I'm probably the most hypocritical in saying this, but giving your teammates shit is easily the fastest way to killing their confidence and drastically reducing their performance. Even when I get shit from bad players (thanks to this lovely phenomenon) there's a noticeable psychological impact that just kills my ability to mechanically execute and make sound decisions.

-- Play with similarly skilled players as much as you can. When strong players play with weak players, you get a complete clash of perspectives. Weak players tend to claim that they play for "fun" (where they equate "fun" with passive play and reluctance to learn), dismiss taking the game seriously, and refuse to acknowledge their actual negative impact on games. I obviously have a bias against weak players' attitudes, but it's because I've seen so many cases where weak players make fun of the stronger players' mentalities and then eventually become that exact person upon improvement. Just play with people on the same wavelength. It's just more fun for everyone when they have the same goal.

-- Advise with clarity. Weaker players have a hard time deciphering vague commands, e.g. "stop doing this" or "stop dying." Try to give a reason why they are doing something poorly. On the flip side, if you are a weak player, please. Fucking. Think. Critically. For. Yourself. Other players cannot do your thinking for you. They do not play the game to baby you and hold your hand. When they say something like "stop doing X," you need to figure it out yourself why they would say that. Learn the concept and move on. If you still cannot figure it out, ask. It is completely acceptable to make mistakes. What is unacceptable is making the same mistakes over and over because you're too (mentally) lazy to fix them. This leads to my next point...

-- Be active. The people who I stop playing with have the same trait in common. They are not proactive on two fronts, gameplay and learning. (1) They have a passive style where they aimlessly wander, cannibalize carry farm, rarely gank, or do anything productive at all (read: push into throne). They just exist as a player whose impact is negligible the entire game and drag you down if (and when) they feed. The only way you win with these players is if the other team is overly aggressive to a fault or you can overcome the number disadvantage through uncomfortably risky means. (2) It also doesn't help when they just don't want to learn and repeatedly make the same mistakes that learning a single concept would fix. Make a short-term plan or a mission or a goal and execute. If it fails, it is a learning experience. Refine it. Repeat. Make an impact.

Here's an example: you leave your lane to gank another lane. If he doesn't see you coming, great, you can probably get an easy kill and push. If he does, who cares? (1) It keeps him more honest (2) he will play more defensively which reduces his experience and gold (3) you now have a number advantage in that lane and you can push towers (4) you can force multiple TPs to that lane which costs time and money, and then you can just walk away. If you're not an active player, you're going to be on the defensive end of this scenario, and it doesn't really look that great for you, does it?

-- Pick strong laners. Win the lanes, win the game. This is probably the simplest way to win. When you win the lane, you get a CS advantage, then a kill and tower advantage, and then complete map control. You can control Rosh, their ancients, and their jungle. When these economic advantages build up, you simply crush them and win. Do not be tempted to random a hero. If you're a new player, you need to glance over a specific hero guide and learn at least some of the hero's nuances before you play. Randoming a hero you don't know how to play is completely unfair to the rest of your team because, guess what, you're going to feed and waste everyone's time. It does not help you to get bonus gold when you're going to throw that gold away anyway with poor play. Research, pick and practice that hero multiple times in a row, and move on to a new hero.

-- Give the CS to the better player despite the hero he's using. Sorry, but I don't believe in always giving gold to the carry, especially if the carry is a significantly weaker player than another stronger player (who may even be playing a support hero or ganker). The bad decisions the weaker player will eventually make in the mid-late game will completely nullify the early gold you fed him. That early-game gold dictates the entire rest of the game, and this is gold that the stronger player could've used to control the flow of the game toward his team's favor as a non-carry hero.

-- Be smart about item progression. In general, you want to get items that gradually cost more and more. For example, rushing butterfly or satanic off only boots and some low-tier item is a terrible idea because these two expensive items enhance your existing upper-tier items. You want to use your money to make more money and be perceived as a threat, which is why early-game gold sets the tone for the entire game: there is a compounding effect. You don't want your income or threat level to plateau because you bought a shitty item like vlads or sange & yasha. An example of item progression for Sniper would be as follows: early consumables with branches, phase boots, drum, maelstrom or yasha, hyperstone/mjolnir or manta (or bkb), and a big dps item. These items gradually get more expensive and give you high mobility/survivability and significant DPS throughout the entire game.

find yourself unable to think of what to do -- jungle, lanes, smoke
but dont dedicate all your hp/mana jungling, need to be flexible and ready

--recognizing or knowing what optimal play is, being able to execute it (mechanics)

if youre support, youre in the lane, while enemy team is pushing or ganking, wtf are you still farming for

survivability, damage<-->attackspd, regen

phase vs treads

random vs picking

amnt of hp means nothing -- disables

rate of losing hp for your hero, last hitting

getting every single last hit you can

playing with tight controls
e.g. while laning, you move your hero toward an enemy hero as if youre going to initiate a spell. (the faster he backs off, the tighter his control is.) now that you see him moving away, you turn back. at this point he realizes you're retreating and goes back to last hitting. immediately when you turn toward him to initiate again youll be in spell-range becauase he failed to notice your sudden turn-around. (this is an instance of loose control.)


The problem with bad players isn't that they make bad decisions (not unacceptable). The problem stems from the fact that they continue to make the same bad decisions (unacceptable). If you cannot recognize the factors that led to your bad decision and you continue to repeat it, you are in no position to improve.


Even when I play now, I'll make a suboptimal action just to see what happens and make it a learning experience. Maybe what I thought was a suboptimal choice is actually a good play (or a great situational play).

"In most actual play situations, it's not usually too difficult to determine what the 'safe' play is. What is more difficult is determining when 'safe' isn't good enough. This kind of judgment is what separates the pros from the rest... "

This goes hand-in-hand with...
are you losing your lane or dying repeatedly? Do something about it. There are very simple solutions.
Are you dying because a hero is coming out of the jungle and ganking (i.e. closing the gap without your knowing it)?
Buy wards.
Are you dying because their combo is too strong?
If their initiation is weak, stay in experience range. If their initiation is strong, tower hug if you can, help out another lane with pushing, stack creeps and pull, or smoke gank.

The significant monetary benefit from buying a ward

spending money on consumables -- 100 for smoke to gank, frees up lane for farming, 200 wards keeps you alive, etc, if it saves you from one gank, immediately profitable

You have to ask yourself why you died in that situation and never repeat it. What are some main factors? (1) Being out of position (2) Lack of information

Tunnel Vision

The easiest way to identify a bad player is their intense tunnel vision. Are you spending too long doing any one task? That's tunnel vision. The most common version of tunnel vision is the situation where a player is hopelessly chasing a hero for the kill. If you cannot predict what is going to happen

Here's something you should never forget. The longer the chase goes on, the more likely you will die. Enemy heroes will respawn, TP, or just walk toward you and suddenly you're outnumbered.

Farming all game? Tunnel vision.

chasing -- running the gauntlet

DON'T REACH WITH OPTIMISM WITHOUT REALISM. If you DON'T HAVE A CLEAR PLAN OF ACTION TO SECURE THE KILL VERY SOON, DON'T CHASE. DON'T RAMBO. What are some hopelessly optimistic plays? Your killing blow skill is on cooldown, you have no mana to support the kill and be able to get out somehow, or you are NOT FAST ENOUGH TO GET TO HIM AND KILL HIM. IF YOUR PLAN OF ACTION IS HOPING THAT HE MAKES A MISTAKE, DO NOT DO GO THROUGH WITH IT. You will get lucky and he will let you kill him 1% of the time. THOSE ARE SHITTY ODDS. NEVER TAKE THEM.

refresh your map awareness in battle -- tunnel visioned

time looking at main screen is time NOT LOOKING AT mINI MAP








Basic Warfare, Tactics

All warfare is based on deception.

haveto know how everything will unfold or else dont even try it

always be a threat or impossible target /untargetable through items or positioning or elusiveness

playing heroes like sniper or riki where youre food if farming... gotta move around a LOT, then you wont be ganked when you are the one ganking

character of the game--is it even possible to gank? might take too many resources with little gain and high risk
dont force it

baiting, too good to be true
What is bait? Baiting is when the enemy dangles a hero in front of you while they wait in the fog. If you jump it, they have a positional advantage (because you're going to funnel and attack a single location while they flank from unknown angles) and most likely a number advantage (because you're assuming that the hero is alone when he actually has back-up).
How do I tell if a hero is baiting or just plain stupid? From the beginning of the game, you should profile each hero's tendencies. If they've been playing loosely, it's not bait; take the free gold. If they've been outsmarting you all game, it's probably bait. A good rule of thumb is that if you cannot see any enemy heroes on the mini-map, it's basically bait.

gonna gank someone, don't show yourself -- defeats entire purpose
You're already running the risk that the enemy hero notices you're missing from the mini-map, so showing yourself is the worst possible action to take because it confirms the impending gank. If they don't see you despite the disappearance, they may become impatient and go back to laning. Both you and the enemy hero aren't getting experience or gold so it's okay to wait it out a little bit in the short-run. On a related note, you can test their reaction to see if they have wards in an area. If you fully commit to a gank they know is coming, it's not worth it to hang around.

juking -- going thru trees, come out the exit path = 100% death, come out the way you came from = 0%, if they realize your pattern, take either, 50%






Recovery from Disadvantage

Read this article.

"David can beat Goliath by substituting effort (tryharding i.e. wards/smokes/counter-warding, 5-manning) for ability (experience, mechanics, last-hitting)—and substituting effort for ability turns out to be a winning formula for underdogs in all walks of life"

Taking great effort in always outnumbering the opponent. This includes warding, smoking, "try-harding"

You must put more effort into the game to win as an underdog because if you put in the same effort, his experience and mechanics will beat you down because he is more productive with the same effort, i.e. more efficient than you are. What he doesn't expect is for you to put more effort into the small details which gives you the ability to take down someone better than you. The sad part? He can match your effort and easily beat you, but he won't.

not winning lane/dying repeatedly? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR GO ELSEWHERE
WHY EXTEND YOUR DISADVANTAGE DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN?

solid play -- keep pressing advantage. from behind, must do high risk high reward: rosh, smoke ganks (which you should do prior to being down), keep their jungle or ancient or rosh warded

did the enemy hero buy a sange and yasha or vladimir's offering with his gold advantage?
you thank the dota gods

When you finish an item that is more than the sum of its parts (most items), you immediately get a boost in killing power. If you're economically behind, resorting to completing low-tier items will help you close the power gap by a small amount and help level the playing field, but if you can't turn your disadvantage from these purchases, you're going to be even further behind. What you can do is still go for the high-ticket items, but just make better choices from now on. This is very difficult because people just don't want to change their playstyle, but it is possible. Stop going past the river, let them push into your base when you have zero map control, never go out alone, always outnumber them and burst solos down.

[explain the defensive posture more]

You'll refine your gameplay the most in these games because it pushes you above and beyond your normal skill level. You really have to out-think your opponents to close the disadvantage gap and win. Read this article by Heen.




Obviously, if your mechanics (being able to execute the play) are not up to par, what is the perfect play given my physical limitations?

Standing your ground

Experience vs Perspective

When I play with weaker players, they do completely illogical things; I CANNOT think for them, it is up to you

DONT PLAY CATCH UP. DONT FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN RESPONSE TO ENEMY ACTION. YOU WILL LOSE DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER. CHANGE YOUR GAME UP

psychological biases

-------------------------------

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.

All warfare is based on deception.
hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
hold out baits to entice the enemy. feign disorder, and crush him.
if he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. if he is in superior strength, evade him
if he is taking his ease, give him no rest
attack him where is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.
Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions.
To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape.
Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization.
There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle.
Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.
One defends when his strength is inadaquate, he attacks when it is abundant
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
A skilled commander seeks victory from the situation and does not demand it of his subordinates.
What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease.
When the enemy is at ease, be able to weary him; when well fed, to starve him; when at rest, to make him move. Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used.
A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.
The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting
The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing.
The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand.
Now the reason the enlightened prince and the wise general conquer the enemy whenever they move and their achievements surpass those of ordinary men is foreknowledge.
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.
The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.
If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.
The ultimate in disposing one's troops is to be without ascertainable shape. Then the most penetrating spies cannot pry in nor can the wise lay plans against you.
The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim.
Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, he is inaudible. Thus he is master of his enemy's fate.
Too frequent rewards indicate that the general is at the end of his resources; too frequent punishments that he is in acute distress.
Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move.

five essentials for victory
1. he will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight
2. he will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces
3. he will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
4. he will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared
5. he will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign
victory lies in the knowledge of these five points




1 Laying Plans/The Calculations explores the five fundamental factors (the Way, seasons, terrain, leadership and management) and seven elements that determine the outcomes of military engagements. By thinking, assessing and comparing these points, a commander can calculate his chances of victory. Habitual deviation from these calculations will ensure failure via improper action. The text stresses that war is a very grave matter for the state and must not be commenced without due consideration.
2 Waging War/The Challenge explains how to understand the economy of warfare and how success requires winning decisive engagements quickly. This section advises that successful military campaigns require limiting the cost of competition and conflict.
3 Attack by Stratagem/The Plan of Attack defines the source of strength as unity, not size, and discusses the five factors that are needed to succeed in any war. In order of importance, these critical factors are: Attack, Strategy, Alliances, Army and Cities.
4 Tactical Dispositions/Positioning explains the importance of defending existing positions until a commander is capable of advancing from those positions in safety. It teaches commanders the importance of recognizing strategic opportunities, and teaches not to create opportunities for the enemy.
5 Energy/Directing explains the use of creativity and timing in building an army's momentum.
6 Weak Points & Strong/Illusion and Reality explains how an army's opportunities come from the openings in the environment caused by the relative weakness of the enemy in a given area.
7 Maneuvering/Engaging The Force explains the dangers of direct conflict and how to win those confrontations when they are forced upon the commander.
8 Variation in Tactics/The Nine Variations focuses on the need for flexibility in an army's responses. It explains how to respond to shifting circumstances successfully.
9 The Army on the March/Moving The Force describes the different situations in which an army finds itself as it moves through new enemy territories, and how to respond to these situations. Much of this section focuses on evaluating the intentions of others.
0 Terrain/Situational Positioning looks at the three general areas of resistance (distance, dangers and barriers) and the six types of ground positions that arise from them. Each of these six field positions offer certain advantages and disadvantages.
1 The Nine Situations/Nine Terrains describes the nine common situations (or stages) in a campaign, from scattering to deadly, and the specific focus that a commander will need in order to successfully navigate them.
2 The Attack by Fire/Fiery Attack explains the general use of weapons and the specific use of the environment as a weapon. This section examines the five targets for attack, the five types of environmental attack and the appropriate responses to such attacks.
3 The Use of Spies/The Use of Intelligence focuses on the importance of developing good information sources, and specifies the five types of intelligence sources and how to best manage each of them.


Hates Fun🤔
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 06 2012 21:08 GMT
#16026
Guys, don't you think that NA is just a slightly worse bh ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 21:13:47
August 06 2012 21:13 GMT
#16027
he's a lot worse, but he does have a stun
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 06 2012 21:25 GMT
#16028
wow... some kid thought im a BR teenager bc i dont speak straight english and have Gengar as my name... its funny bc i doubt any kids these days still remember about pokemon, especially #1 gen pokemon :-/

anyway, I really dont believe Zenith will do that well in the actual tournament. They probably get into Ro8 but beyond that is quite impressive for them. I have been keeping track of beyondthesubmit quite closely and the chinese teams are not impressing me any how. If not, DK performs seems to be slightly worse.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-06 21:28:42
August 06 2012 21:27 GMT
#16029
On August 07 2012 06:25 NB wrote:
anyway, I really dont believe Zenith will do that well in the actual tournament. They probably get into Ro8 but beyond that is quite impressive for them. I have been keeping track of beyondthesubmit quite closely and the chinese teams are not impressing me any how. If not, DK performs seems to be slightly worse.

DK's been having issues in both DotA 1 and DotA 2 recently--they only just barely squeezed into top 6 of ACE DotA. Supposedly some team issues.

LGD is definitely the Chinese team to watch for, followed very closely by iG and Tongfu.
Moderator
tpmraven
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States833 Posts
August 06 2012 21:33 GMT
#16030
On August 07 2012 06:08 Erasme wrote:
Guys, don't you think that NA is just a slightly worse bh ?


I was playing NA alot yesterday, and i realized he is a slighlty less effective version of lion.

Q is the same skill,
they both have mana drain,
they both have a secondary disable,
They both have high dmg single target ultis.

BUT lions ulti is ranged and more dmg, his disable is alot more realiable, he is ranged. NA's mana drain is admitly nicer cause it doesnt need to be channeled.

Just feels like a lion with a shadow blade >>> NA.
(⌐■_■) Like a boss
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
August 06 2012 21:34 GMT
#16031
The only cool thing about NA is doing cool shit with his reflect ability.
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 06 2012 21:51 GMT
#16032
does it stack with blademail ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
August 06 2012 22:09 GMT
#16033
On August 07 2012 06:27 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 06:25 NB wrote:
anyway, I really dont believe Zenith will do that well in the actual tournament. They probably get into Ro8 but beyond that is quite impressive for them. I have been keeping track of beyondthesubmit quite closely and the chinese teams are not impressing me any how. If not, DK performs seems to be slightly worse.

DK's been having issues in both DotA 1 and DotA 2 recently--they only just barely squeezed into top 6 of ACE DotA. Supposedly some team issues.

LGD is definitely the Chinese team to watch for, followed very closely by iG and Tongfu.


DK's not in the top 6 of ACE since they tied with FL in overall score and lost in head-to-head
They basically have G league finals in a week in which they'll get roflstomped by iG in their current condition

The dispute is between LongDD and XB or Yueru (rotk or super) basically of the positional changes in the team dynamic. Basically LongDD's been semi captain/2nd position for most of their games in DotA2 due to him playing the most of it and this causes problems in the overall team dynamic in both DotA1 and DotA2 now that they're trying to integrate the two and play cohesively. Burning's never been the kind of hands on captain and he's kind of depressed by this infighting and thinking about retiring.

Basically DK is caught between DotA1 and 2 with no clear team organization, motivation, or structure
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 06 2012 22:12 GMT
#16034
Nerubian assasin:

pros:
+stronk 1v1 solo mid
+stronk mana burn scale into late game
+stronk stun
+invi hero good skill gg

cons:
+shit mana
+shit mana
+shit farm
+countered by centaur

conclusion:
nab hero... joking. Intense mana cost make his early gank extremely ineffective without ally support. If solo gank mid game fail, he will have a hard time getting the farm he needs to sutain late game. Basicly a no-skill version of pudge. Definitely recommend picking =))
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 06 2012 22:38 GMT
#16035
WTF I just checked the ACE DotA website and it says DK 7th, For.Love 6th, when I could have sworn they had them the other way round yesterday...

On August 07 2012 07:09 Kupon3ss wrote:
DK's not in the top 6 of ACE since they tied with FL in overall score and lost in head-to-head

DK tied the head-to-head: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/gosubet/124621

Moderator
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
August 06 2012 22:44 GMT
#16036
On August 07 2012 07:38 TheYango wrote:
WTF I just checked the ACE DotA website and it says DK 7th, For.Love 6th, when I could have sworn they had them the other way round yesterday...

Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 07:09 Kupon3ss wrote:
DK's not in the top 6 of ACE since they tied with FL in overall score and lost in head-to-head

DK tied the head-to-head: http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/gosubet/124621



dk took longer to beat fl than vice-versa thus they lost the head to head
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
August 06 2012 22:57 GMT
#16037
[image loading]
Gotta love sven.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 06 2012 23:04 GMT
#16038
rumor has it: M5 cant find vigoss so they cant play in TI2, mouz replacing them. Thoughts?
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
August 06 2012 23:08 GMT
#16039
vigoss got kidnapped by drunk russian women
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
August 06 2012 23:14 GMT
#16040
On August 07 2012 08:04 NB wrote:
rumor has it: M5 cant find vigoss so they cant play in TI2, mouz replacing them. Thoughts?


what?! :O
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
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