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On April 23 2014 07:30 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 07:03 TheYango wrote: The thing is with Sven is that he's not really threatening by himself given his comparatively low mobility. He has a powerful 10s BKB timing, but unless your team really has the appropriate means to let him stand and do damage (e.g. DS, Magnus kind of heroes) or picks specifically to supplement his ability to engage and move around in fights (e.g. Wisp), it's not all that easy for him to stay on targets once those BKB charges go down.
He's quite good at a secondary frontline core with a primary back-line damage dealer, but given that there's not really a place to lane him other than safe lane, it means you need a pretty specific draft with a mid- or off-lane damage-dealing lategame core, and even then you have to look at the situation for whether it suit's Sven's raw up-front damage over someone like Doom who has more flexibility and usefulness against specific heroes.
So he's a good pick in the right circumstances, but a little bit uncomfortable to pick for, and comparatively easy to pick against. Sounds like something EG could run with Fear, like they did Ursa with Weaver (I think) mid. well old EG was actually the team that ran stuff like sven,enigma,ds,etc for the longest time even tho nobody else did. they fucking sucked tho
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I don't feel arc warden is overpowered. Strong yes but no more than that. Maybe I am underestimating stuff like double necro fast pushing with mines for cover.
Oracle on the other hand is bonkers.
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I think Oracle is being a bit overhyped. Yes Fate's Edict is on a 3 second cooldown, but in order to make the most of it you need the other 2 spells first.
False Promise is strong and I wouldn't be shocked to see a CD/Duration nerf to it, but as far as I can see he's hardly on the pubstomp level of Earth Spirit and is going to be another hero that takes some time to learn.
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On April 23 2014 08:55 ControlMonkey wrote: Funny that Wraith King has 1 active skill, but then you need to tread swap, armlet toggle, use wand charges to get mana for ult, blink, use blade mail...
Well I suppose he's a good starting point if you wanted to get used to using item actives, as you only really have one skill to worry about.
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On April 23 2014 09:45 LeLoup wrote: I think Oracle is being a bit overhyped. Yes Fate's Edict is on a 3 second cooldown, but in order to make the most of it you need the other 2 spells first.
False Promise is strong and I wouldn't be shocked to see a CD/Duration nerf to it, but as far as I can see he's hardly on the pubstomp level of Earth Spirit and is going to be another hero that takes some time to learn. Flames/Purge/Flames is still a 1060 nuke, 800 at lvl 7. Finger does 600 at lvl 1, for comparison. Its pretty strong, and there is also his ult, and heals for the lane. He is not a win the game by yourself hero like Zet, but I expect him to be like old wisp, stacks playing the hero well being almost unbeatable.
He can also heal you for 88 HP per second stacking two flames in a single fate´s edict. Alchemist ult at lvl 16 heals for 100.
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does he still solo roshan or did that finally get fixed
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On April 23 2014 07:30 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 07:03 TheYango wrote: The thing is with Sven is that he's not really threatening by himself given his comparatively low mobility. He has a powerful 10s BKB timing, but unless your team really has the appropriate means to let him stand and do damage (e.g. DS, Magnus kind of heroes) or picks specifically to supplement his ability to engage and move around in fights (e.g. Wisp), it's not all that easy for him to stay on targets once those BKB charges go down.
He's quite good at a secondary frontline core with a primary back-line damage dealer, but given that there's not really a place to lane him other than safe lane, it means you need a pretty specific draft with a mid- or off-lane damage-dealing lategame core, and even then you have to look at the situation for whether it suit's Sven's raw up-front damage over someone like Doom who has more flexibility and usefulness against specific heroes.
So he's a good pick in the right circumstances, but a little bit uncomfortable to pick for, and comparatively easy to pick against. Sounds like something EG could run with Fear, like they did Ursa with Weaver (I think) mid. My thought was EG, too, with zai playing the Sven basically the same way they run WK. It won't happen, though, just because Fear likes the hero too much to let someone else play it.
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On April 23 2014 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote:Well, 0 cast point heroes are inherently more fun. Also ES and Phoenix both have precise enough skill shots that they can't really afford real cast points (above say .2). LoL style 
I don't play enough ES to say anything about his kit, but Phoenix could easily have small cast times added to all its skills except the actual usage of the Spirits.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
mid dazzle, wtf am i doing?
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On April 23 2014 10:35 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 07:30 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 23 2014 07:03 TheYango wrote: The thing is with Sven is that he's not really threatening by himself given his comparatively low mobility. He has a powerful 10s BKB timing, but unless your team really has the appropriate means to let him stand and do damage (e.g. DS, Magnus kind of heroes) or picks specifically to supplement his ability to engage and move around in fights (e.g. Wisp), it's not all that easy for him to stay on targets once those BKB charges go down.
He's quite good at a secondary frontline core with a primary back-line damage dealer, but given that there's not really a place to lane him other than safe lane, it means you need a pretty specific draft with a mid- or off-lane damage-dealing lategame core, and even then you have to look at the situation for whether it suit's Sven's raw up-front damage over someone like Doom who has more flexibility and usefulness against specific heroes.
So he's a good pick in the right circumstances, but a little bit uncomfortable to pick for, and comparatively easy to pick against. Sounds like something EG could run with Fear, like they did Ursa with Weaver (I think) mid. My thought was EG, too, with zai playing the Sven basically the same way they run WK. It won't happen, though, just because Fear likes the hero too much to let someone else play it.
I've been playing a lot of Sven and WK support in MM because you can create space for your carry / control and win the earlygame, but also turn into the lategame carry if you notice your team sucks. It's a great medium and I still think its the only way to consistently win as support-only in MM. Other similar heroes such as Mirana, Necrophos and Alch are my mainstays lately too for carry potential from the 4/5 position.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 09:36 Hagen0 wrote: I don't feel arc warden is overpowered. Strong yes but no more than that. Maybe I am underestimating stuff like double necro fast pushing with mines for cover. He doesn't need mines for cover. Double Necro + Rapier Arc Warden takes towers faster than anything with zero risk because he outright never needs to show his own face--only his clone and a clone with Rapier breaks towers stupid fast for something that gives no reward when killed.
Even if we're playing in a setting where he kind of cares about getting caught he can still get Manta over Rapier and push with 4 x Necro 4x Illusions + Clone (you get Rapier in pubs because who the fuck cares about losing a pub and Rapier is just more fun because who the fuck wouldn't buy a Rapier on a hero who can use it without risk of dropping it). It's rat Dota on a level you've never seen before with any current hero, and it's on a support who didn't even need to take a core farming position because his farm explodes with double Midas anyway.
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I had to double check to see if it was really Yango.
Sounds like a hero that'll make me stay away from AP.
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On April 23 2014 10:41 Targe wrote: mid dazzle, wtf am i doing?
Being a baller clearly. Mid dazzle is just too good.
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On April 23 2014 10:41 Targe wrote: mid dazzle, wtf am i doing?
mid dazzle is awesome
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On April 23 2014 07:30 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 07:03 TheYango wrote: The thing is with Sven is that he's not really threatening by himself given his comparatively low mobility. He has a powerful 10s BKB timing, but unless your team really has the appropriate means to let him stand and do damage (e.g. DS, Magnus kind of heroes) or picks specifically to supplement his ability to engage and move around in fights (e.g. Wisp), it's not all that easy for him to stay on targets once those BKB charges go down.
He's quite good at a secondary frontline core with a primary back-line damage dealer, but given that there's not really a place to lane him other than safe lane, it means you need a pretty specific draft with a mid- or off-lane damage-dealing lategame core, and even then you have to look at the situation for whether it suit's Sven's raw up-front damage over someone like Doom who has more flexibility and usefulness against specific heroes.
So he's a good pick in the right circumstances, but a little bit uncomfortable to pick for, and comparatively easy to pick against. Sounds like something EG could run with Fear, like they did Ursa with Weaver (I think) mid.
EG ran RTZ mid Sven at least once, although he was more of an initiator who rushed blink and maxed stun then warcry before cleave (can't remember if he even got cleave).
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
i failed at playing a non support dazzle friends
i have failed you all
apparently he needs at least 1 hp item and rushing orchid is bad
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