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On April 23 2014 02:38 TheYango wrote:
Like, if you compare them on strength of abilities, Earthshaker's comparable to some of these newer heroes, but consider that Earthshaker was balanced on having an absolutely awful animation, and think how ridiculously broken he would be if he was a 0 animation hero.
I'll consider stealing Fissure as Rubick instead, thank you very much.
Lesh is another good example of a hero that would be fukkin broke if he had no cast animation. Nukes for days.
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On April 23 2014 01:49 andyrau wrote:
so arc warden is like an overpowered combination of meepo and terrorblade?
nah .. he has low stats
meepo and terrorblade has huge dps.
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Meepo has pretty criminally low stat gain (to offset there being 5 of him obviously)
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Anyone know the proper starting items for Lycan? Everytime I jungle with him I never get the items right.
Is it Quelling Blade, Stout + Tangos or straight Ring of Basi + Tangos into Vlads?
I used to go QB, Stout, Tangos into RoP and Ring of Basi to Morbid's Mask
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Look at the Lycan thread by Kwark in the strategy section for optimal jungling advice (note: it requires a suicide which may be offputting to guide-users). Also note that generally you want RoB + an extra sobi mask in order to sustain your jungle before finishing vlads (the extra sobi mask is part of your medallion).
Also I think stout is fairly good/necessary since you can't make wolves tank very much although in the suicide route you skip it? not sure.
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This has been discussed to death in the Lycan strategy thread.
Current consensus is qb/shield/tango I believe.You need to suicide at the right times to jungle smoothly.
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I read that, I just tried it and it spawned hellbears so that was bunk haha.
This is for me personally as I play more Lycan. I used to play him a shitload and I shyed away a lot and now I'm trying to figure him out again
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Theres a reason he's in lane 95 out of every 100 pro games.
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On April 23 2014 02:35 TheYango wrote:
My only concern is that a lot of these newer "OP" heroes have been 0 cast point heroes--Earth, Ember, Phoenix, etc.
Cast point has very little impact on the hero stylistically, but has an enormous effect on the balance of these heroes, especially given how ability-centric they are. Giving them 0 cast point allows them to do a lot of things that would be a lot more controllable otherwise.
Put differently, what did making Earth Spirit and Phoenix 0 cast point heroes serve to accomplish other than contributing to them being insanely strong?
Is 0 cast point a requirement for non-interrupting spells?
Ember has SoF -> Chains, Phoenix has Dive or beam + spirits, and Earth has roll + abilities that all seem pretty central to the given heroes. Is that why they have 0s animations? (Surely the heroes could be designed differently of course)
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No, although for SoF+Chains to be a thing chains would need a 0-cast point anyway (which is still possible while having a cast point on the rest of his skills).
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On April 23 2014 03:02 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 02:35 TheYango wrote:
My only concern is that a lot of these newer "OP" heroes have been 0 cast point heroes--Earth, Ember, Phoenix, etc.
Cast point has very little impact on the hero stylistically, but has an enormous effect on the balance of these heroes, especially given how ability-centric they are. Giving them 0 cast point allows them to do a lot of things that would be a lot more controllable otherwise.
Put differently, what did making Earth Spirit and Phoenix 0 cast point heroes serve to accomplish other than contributing to them being insanely strong? Is 0 cast point a requirement for non-interrupting spells? Ember has SoF -> Chains, Phoenix has Dive or beam + spirits, and Earth has roll + abilities that all seem pretty central to the given heroes. Is that why they have 0s animations? (Surely the heroes could be designed differently of course)
Morph can cast mid waveform for example, if that's what you mean.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:07 Sn0_Man wrote:
No, although for SoF+Chains to be a thing chains would need a 0-cast point anyway (which is still possible while having a cast point on the rest of his skills).
Chains would probably be 0-cast point regardless, mostly because using a base spell that's not Fan of Knives for that skill would be a lot more annoying for Icefrog to code.
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On April 23 2014 02:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
You click on the hero with ES though if u can't afford to miss. And echo is instant so he does have unmissable chainstun post blink and level 10. And his stun is the biggest thing in the game so...
But yes, power creep is real and animations play a part in that i'm not arguing with you there.
Fissure side and enchant totem stun is vely important
ES is only one of many
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On April 23 2014 02:35 TheYango wrote:
My only concern is that a lot of these newer "OP" heroes have been 0 cast point heroes--Earth, Ember, Phoenix, etc.
Cast point has very little impact on the hero stylistically, but has an enormous effect on the balance of these heroes, especially given how ability-centric they are. Giving them 0 cast point allows them to do a lot of things that would be a lot more controllable otherwise.
Put differently, what did making Earth Spirit and Phoenix 0 cast point heroes serve to accomplish other than contributing to them being insanely strong?
With Earth Spirit, he was a hero that was built around his combo. With the interaction with his stones it wouldn't make any sense to give him a cast animation because he was a hero that relied on being able to chain his abilities together. Now it is a bit different and we'll see how that goes, but for old Kaolin that's how I see it.
For Phoenix I don't think that having a cast point would make sense either. The hero already sacrifices health to cast his spells, and his Ult would be nearly unusable if it had a cast point on top of everything else so giving him a 0 one makes sense to me. He doesn't feel like he needs much tuning IMO, but I'd like to see the attack speed bug fixed before he gets touched for balance again.
As far as Ember goes I think that he of all of them could have a cast point. Considering that Storm's escape is slightly worse than his the fact that he can zip away if he's left unchecked for even a second is a bit annoying. Though my feeling is that with his awful stat gain he needs the 0 cast point so that he can actually do something in the late game. Hard to say though how badly it would hurt him.
EDIT: For the Earthshaker comparison though I feel like it's being missed that he is a hero with 3 stuns where none of the other 3 being discussed have true reliable lockdown (especially in the AoE that Earthshaker does). The 0 cast point comes with other big tradeoffs for each hero so I don't feel like you can make the argument that it's a power creep. It's just a different style of hero than the basics that have been in the game forever.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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On April 23 2014 05:34 Erasme wrote:
quite the insight fw
:p
I'm reporting him for spamming this sacred and hallowed area of TL.
I wonder what IF has in store for the next OP hero.
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I remember when skywrath was being ported how much everybody cried about his OP mid powers.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
this space of insightful discussion and knowledge
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
On April 23 2014 05:26 flamewheel wrote:
oracre prs
Go away, you don't even play Dota any more.
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EPT
