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Veles
United States3280 Posts
Wow, AA was only released in 6.65. I remember loving his 20sec cd lvl 3 ult. Looking at more dota patches, phoenix actually came out before LC/Timber/Sky/Xin. 6.73/4 seems to be around the time i switched. It's interesting how long it took for people to understand xin. When he first came out max flamegaurd = easiest kills of your life. Only recently did the meta abandon that logic and discovered the early/midgame power of SoF->chains | ||
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Talron
Germany7651 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:44 TheYango wrote: Let's not forget double rapier where the clone's rapier doesn't drop on death. Oh, wow I didn't know that works. While we're at it. What about Winter Wyvern? Arctic Burn - Flying movement + 1k Range autoattacks 6% direct HP removal of targets current HP and MS slow (target can only be affected once per cast) looks pretty damn strong to me. Splinter Blast - Fairly generic nuke+slow. Specially in comparison to the rest IceFrog tossed out in the past years Cold Embrace - 20*6%maxHP reg. over 4 sec, while granting physical immunity. Winter's Curse - Is probably the most hilarious Ult ever. Nuff said. Overall he looks not as stupendous as someone like Zet or Oracle. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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Ru ba
Serbia1812 Posts
false promise is just boring and dumb,it's like gz you have a dazzle grave on crack and I can't do anything about it outside of trying to prevent it from going off at least they nerfed the range i guess | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:51 Veles wrote: I think every hero post phoenix has been hopelessly broken. I can't decide if old phoenix spirits (huge aoe damege + huge aoe heal for allies) are worse than the current spirits (+ dota2 AS bug) or not. LC, Skywrath, and Shredder were all fine at release. | ||
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Veles
United States3280 Posts
On April 23 2014 02:00 TheYango wrote: Regarding Winter Wyvern, it depends whether they port the DotA 1 bug where Aphotic Shield removes the stun on Cold Embrace but not the regen/physical immunity (might work with other triggered buff removal, but not sure). LC, Skywrath, and Shredder were all fine at release. yep, i just edited my post after revisiting getdota =p. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 23 2014 02:00 TheYango wrote: Regarding Winter Wyvern, it depends whether they port the DotA 1 bug where Aphotic Shield removes the stun on Cold Embrace but not the regen/physical immunity (might work with other triggered buff removal, but not sure). LC, Skywrath, and Shredder were all fine at release. I would imagine not. Seems like a decent hero - 285 MS low attack range low right click damage is sad, however. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:52 Talron wrote: Splinter Blast - Fairly generic nuke+slow. Specially in comparison to the rest IceFrog tossed out in the past years It's actually kind of interesting, IMO. 1200 range, 340 damage + 4s slow on a 7s cooldown is quite good, but reigned in by the huge drawback of not affecting your initial target and only affecting the splash targets. EDIT: Also, I just checked--instances of triggered buff removal interact with Cold Embrace the same way Aphotic Shield does. So Slark/Abaddon/LC/carry Tidehunter all have interesting interactions with Winter Wyvern that can be abused. | ||
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Talron
Germany7651 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:54 Kuroeeah wrote: I don't think frost wyrm is as bad as your making him out to be I think you misunderstood. I saying or at least trying to say, that he's strong. But not as ridiculous as Zet or Oracle. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:41 Sn0_Man wrote: Well, can you imagine how many complaints there would be if Icefrog released sven or lina as a new hero today? He kinda has to come up with weird and wonderful shit or nobody would play the new heroes lol. Not only that, but Icefrog has always struck me as designing heroes for a purpose. This isn't other MOBAs of stuffing a million similar heroes in. DotA2 has a lot of the basic roles already covered so now we're getting things that are a little more involved. Phoenix being a good example, balance opinions aside, of this sort of interesting offlane, but supportive hero that's centered around being heavily teamfight damaged oriented hero that's not covered by anyone else. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On April 23 2014 02:30 Logo wrote: Not only that, but Icefrog has always struck me as designing heroes for a purpose. This isn't other MOBAs of stuffing a million similar heroes in. DotA2 has a lot of the basic roles already covered so now we're getting things that are a little more involved. Phoenix being a good example, balance opinions aside, of this sort of interesting offlane, but supportive hero that's centered around being heavily teamfight damaged oriented hero that's not covered by anyone else. Well, Dark Seer is actually a lot like phoenix in that he's a teamfight-centric offlaner who is capable of actually stunting the farm of the enemy carry. I mean, thats the extent of the similarities but still, they fill a similar niche/role. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Cast point has very little impact on the hero stylistically, but has an enormous effect on the balance of these heroes, especially given how ability-centric they are. Giving them 0 cast point allows them to do a lot of things that would be a lot more controllable otherwise. Put differently, what did making Earth Spirit and Phoenix 0 cast point heroes serve to accomplish other than contributing to them being insanely strong? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On April 23 2014 02:30 Logo wrote: Not only that, but Icefrog has always struck me as designing heroes for a purpose. This isn't other MOBAs of stuffing a million similar heroes in. DotA2 has a lot of the basic roles already covered so now we're getting things that are a little more involved. Phoenix being a good example, balance opinions aside, of this sort of interesting offlane, but supportive hero that's centered around being heavily teamfight damaged oriented hero that's not covered by anyone else. Actually, just as a counterpoint, Sven and Lina are both independent, valuable heroes in their own right. Sven is a Wisp partner, as well as being a powerful carry with a stun and massive AoE damage output. Lina is a strong follow-up stunner with extremely high burst damage very well-suited to trilanes. Sure, both of them are covered in part by other heroes, but even just slight changes to some abilities give heroes very different flavors. There's a huge amount of depth in the game without making ridiculously weird spells. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Also ES and Phoenix both have precise enough skill shots that they can't really afford real cast points (above say .2). LoL style  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
But yes, power creep is real and animations play a part in that i'm not arguing with you there. | ||
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