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On February 28 2014 17:20 Aldrovandi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 16:54 Tobberoth wrote:On February 28 2014 05:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Actually, the more complex version of Dota is probably the WC3 custom map EotA. More complex armor/attack type interactions, ability scaling based on stats, much more complicated maps, multiple victory conditions and traditional RTS elements. Players can spend money to upgrade creeps, spawn different, more advanced or specialized creeps, build towers and even change the pathing and composition of waves. For instance, in Dota terms, you could build a tower that would redirect Radiant bottom creeps through the jungle and into mid.
Man, that map was so fuckin' good. Ability scaling is so shit though, that's how LoL works and it is one of the worst aspects of that game, it leads to even more ridiculous snowballing. Think about Zeus ulti, that shit is pretty annoying. Now think about Karthus ulti (which is identical but scales), it's almost impossible to beat a team with a fed mid karthus in LoL, he'll use ulti and your whole team is sub 50% hp. Get ridiculous enough and he starts to oneshot supports with it. Nah, thank god for non scaling abilities, which lets there be proper balance between lategame rightclickers and early game spammers. Have you actually played LoL? A Karthus would need 1100 AP to one-shot a level 10 Soraka if Magic Resistance didn't exist in the game. I've been on both ends of the 100-0 refresher-Aghs Zeus ult, but that doesn't happen in League. Follow-up: What is Aghs if not ability scaling?
aghs isnt ability scaling
and theres a million more ways to 100-0 someone in league with ap mids way faster than in dota sorry thats a fact
idk how you have this idea that it doenst happen in league LMAO
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United States47024 Posts
This discussion is going nowhere good.
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Aghs refresher zeus is 960 damage.
Even a level 11 ench has an easy time getting out of that range.
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It actually can happen in DotA exactly as much as it does it LoL, the difference is simply that DotA has variable scaling and an item called BKB that makes the ability to "100-0" somebody a means rather than an end. Nearly every DotA caster will be able to instagib a carry that goes no survivability if they go eblade/dagon/Refresher.
However, with the existence of cast times, actual cooldowns, variable hero scaling, and BKBs, simply being able to instagib somebody is not the ticket to victory since a 4v5 in DotA where one team is down a support is nowhere as one-sided as it tends to be in LoL since damage isn't so focused in the 100-0 full frontend burst that cannot hit carries.
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On February 28 2014 17:32 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 17:20 Aldrovandi wrote:On February 28 2014 16:54 Tobberoth wrote:On February 28 2014 05:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Actually, the more complex version of Dota is probably the WC3 custom map EotA. More complex armor/attack type interactions, ability scaling based on stats, much more complicated maps, multiple victory conditions and traditional RTS elements. Players can spend money to upgrade creeps, spawn different, more advanced or specialized creeps, build towers and even change the pathing and composition of waves. For instance, in Dota terms, you could build a tower that would redirect Radiant bottom creeps through the jungle and into mid.
Man, that map was so fuckin' good. Ability scaling is so shit though, that's how LoL works and it is one of the worst aspects of that game, it leads to even more ridiculous snowballing. Think about Zeus ulti, that shit is pretty annoying. Now think about Karthus ulti (which is identical but scales), it's almost impossible to beat a team with a fed mid karthus in LoL, he'll use ulti and your whole team is sub 50% hp. Get ridiculous enough and he starts to oneshot supports with it. Nah, thank god for non scaling abilities, which lets there be proper balance between lategame rightclickers and early game spammers. Have you actually played LoL? A Karthus would need 1100 AP to one-shot a level 10 Soraka if Magic Resistance didn't exist in the game. I've been on both ends of the 100-0 refresher-Aghs Zeus ult, but that doesn't happen in League. Follow-up: What is Aghs if not ability scaling? aghs isnt ability scaling and theres a million more ways to 100-0 someone in league with ap mids way faster than in dota sorry thats a fact idk how you have this idea that it doenst happen in league LMAO
I didn't say that you can't 100-0 someone in League, I said Tobberoth's example was an exaggeration.
How is Aghs not ability scaling? You spend money, your ability is better.
Edit: I see how you could interpret what I wrote to mean you can't 100-0 someone at all in League, I specifically meant Tobberoth's example does not happen in League.
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On February 28 2014 17:43 Aldrovandi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 17:32 FinestHour wrote:On February 28 2014 17:20 Aldrovandi wrote:On February 28 2014 16:54 Tobberoth wrote:On February 28 2014 05:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Actually, the more complex version of Dota is probably the WC3 custom map EotA. More complex armor/attack type interactions, ability scaling based on stats, much more complicated maps, multiple victory conditions and traditional RTS elements. Players can spend money to upgrade creeps, spawn different, more advanced or specialized creeps, build towers and even change the pathing and composition of waves. For instance, in Dota terms, you could build a tower that would redirect Radiant bottom creeps through the jungle and into mid.
Man, that map was so fuckin' good. Ability scaling is so shit though, that's how LoL works and it is one of the worst aspects of that game, it leads to even more ridiculous snowballing. Think about Zeus ulti, that shit is pretty annoying. Now think about Karthus ulti (which is identical but scales), it's almost impossible to beat a team with a fed mid karthus in LoL, he'll use ulti and your whole team is sub 50% hp. Get ridiculous enough and he starts to oneshot supports with it. Nah, thank god for non scaling abilities, which lets there be proper balance between lategame rightclickers and early game spammers. Have you actually played LoL? A Karthus would need 1100 AP to one-shot a level 10 Soraka if Magic Resistance didn't exist in the game. I've been on both ends of the 100-0 refresher-Aghs Zeus ult, but that doesn't happen in League. Follow-up: What is Aghs if not ability scaling? aghs isnt ability scaling and theres a million more ways to 100-0 someone in league with ap mids way faster than in dota sorry thats a fact idk how you have this idea that it doenst happen in league LMAO I didn't say that you can't 100-0 someone in League, I said Tobberoth's example was an exaggeration. How is Aghs not ability scaling? You spend money, your ability is better. Edit: I see how you could interpret what I wrote to mean you can't 100-0 someone at all in League, I specifically meant Tobberoth's example does not happen in League.
It's not scaling because scaling means that you have a linear increase.
Aghanims is a item that adds sometimes damage,but more often than not,another attribute to your ability.
The term "ability scaling" works in LoL because LoL abilitys have a %AP increase to them which gives the ability bonus damage based on how much AP you have and how much +%AP the ability has to it.
Aghanims scepter is not scaling in that sense because often there is no linear increase in power and when you buy it it's a one off thing,you can't buy more aghanims scepters to further "scale" your ability.
i think i just confused myself as well with this post but I guess you can see what i meanxd
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i cant connect to steam, any1 having the same issue?
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Had an issue where I couldn't login to steam at all last night but it was fixed this morning. Don't know about now though.
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I enjoyed veigar it is more or less old school pudge but in caster form. Tried annie aswell but that was just a bad mix of 4 heroes. Rumors says she is strong in current meta. I guess ogre warlock dk ds chipper is pretty strong.
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On February 28 2014 17:20 Aldrovandi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 16:54 Tobberoth wrote:On February 28 2014 05:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Actually, the more complex version of Dota is probably the WC3 custom map EotA. More complex armor/attack type interactions, ability scaling based on stats, much more complicated maps, multiple victory conditions and traditional RTS elements. Players can spend money to upgrade creeps, spawn different, more advanced or specialized creeps, build towers and even change the pathing and composition of waves. For instance, in Dota terms, you could build a tower that would redirect Radiant bottom creeps through the jungle and into mid.
Man, that map was so fuckin' good. Ability scaling is so shit though, that's how LoL works and it is one of the worst aspects of that game, it leads to even more ridiculous snowballing. Think about Zeus ulti, that shit is pretty annoying. Now think about Karthus ulti (which is identical but scales), it's almost impossible to beat a team with a fed mid karthus in LoL, he'll use ulti and your whole team is sub 50% hp. Get ridiculous enough and he starts to oneshot supports with it. Nah, thank god for non scaling abilities, which lets there be proper balance between lategame rightclickers and early game spammers. Have you actually played LoL? A Karthus would need 1100 AP to one-shot a level 10 Soraka if Magic Resistance didn't exist in the game. I've been on both ends of the 100-0 refresher-Aghs Zeus ult, but that doesn't happen in League. Follow-up: What is Aghs if not ability scaling?
That's odd because Refresher-Aghs is fucking dogshit on Zeus
I wish people would realize that Zeus' true spell is his W, and build him around that
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actually he's only playable because of static field
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On February 28 2014 17:43 Aldrovandi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 17:32 FinestHour wrote:On February 28 2014 17:20 Aldrovandi wrote:On February 28 2014 16:54 Tobberoth wrote:On February 28 2014 05:45 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Actually, the more complex version of Dota is probably the WC3 custom map EotA. More complex armor/attack type interactions, ability scaling based on stats, much more complicated maps, multiple victory conditions and traditional RTS elements. Players can spend money to upgrade creeps, spawn different, more advanced or specialized creeps, build towers and even change the pathing and composition of waves. For instance, in Dota terms, you could build a tower that would redirect Radiant bottom creeps through the jungle and into mid.
Man, that map was so fuckin' good. Ability scaling is so shit though, that's how LoL works and it is one of the worst aspects of that game, it leads to even more ridiculous snowballing. Think about Zeus ulti, that shit is pretty annoying. Now think about Karthus ulti (which is identical but scales), it's almost impossible to beat a team with a fed mid karthus in LoL, he'll use ulti and your whole team is sub 50% hp. Get ridiculous enough and he starts to oneshot supports with it. Nah, thank god for non scaling abilities, which lets there be proper balance between lategame rightclickers and early game spammers. Have you actually played LoL? A Karthus would need 1100 AP to one-shot a level 10 Soraka if Magic Resistance didn't exist in the game. I've been on both ends of the 100-0 refresher-Aghs Zeus ult, but that doesn't happen in League. Follow-up: What is Aghs if not ability scaling? aghs isnt ability scaling and theres a million more ways to 100-0 someone in league with ap mids way faster than in dota sorry thats a fact idk how you have this idea that it doenst happen in league LMAO I didn't say that you can't 100-0 someone in League, I said Tobberoth's example was an exaggeration. How is Aghs not ability scaling? You spend money, your ability is better. Edit: I see how you could interpret what I wrote to mean you can't 100-0 someone at all in League, I specifically meant Tobberoth's example does not happen in League.
I'd say it was more of a meaningful hyperbole than an exaggeration. Does Karthus literally run around oneshotting supports? No. But playing a support against a fed karthus, that's more or less how it feels. My point was that in Lol, oftentimes the fact that abilities scale means that it feels hopeless to fight once you're sufficiently behind. This is true in all MOBAs to some degree, but in Dota, you can at least bet on the fact that annoying abilities opponents have at least stop being super good after a certain point, which leads to comebacks being more common.
So yeah, maybe I exagerated, but I feel my point still stands. The fact that abilities do not scale is useful when it comes to balancing and comebacks, and at least in my opinion, it adds very little to the game. Getting another item with a nice active ability is fun and specialises your hero. Getting yet another item which makes your ability give a bigger number? That's kind of boring (which is why Aghs upgrades generally don't simply boost damage anymore).
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Okaaay let's pull back on the LoL discussion, it's starting to cross from factual to subjective criticism which is not needed.
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On February 28 2014 19:13 Erasme wrote:
actually he's only playable because of static field
basically. w is his "utility" spell. i kinda wish aghs just applied static field to the aoes around the affected targets instead of the increased damage (i mean only once)
On February 28 2014 17:20 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
It worked amazingly well in EotA. Probably because it was entirely tied to stats, and the items that gave them were much, much more limited, both in number and effect. Some were even unique. You can't just buy a +1 scaling item. It's more like Skywrath's nuke, in a world where no item gives more than 20 intelligence. You just have to avoid doing stupid shit like having high scaling on a global ability. Just because Riot can't balance something doesn't mean it's impossible.
eota is incredibly different from dota, let alone lol
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So the hype that tl is building around their documentary is making miss Korok more then ever.
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On February 28 2014 19:13 Erasme wrote:
actually he's only playable because of static field
potato potatoe, point is people should go for a midgame build and not the aghs-refresher nonsense
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Aghs refresher is funnier when you get it off though.
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On February 28 2014 20:46 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 19:13 Erasme wrote:
actually he's only playable because of static field potato potatoe, point is people should go for a midgame build and not the aghs-refresher nonsense
Aghs isn't terrible on Zeus and you should pretty much always buy a Pointbooster on him anyways regardless of what's going on. Forcestaff/Ghost Scepter and finish off with Aghs is an ok build. At which point, it's not a terrible idea to go Refresher ultra late game.
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On February 28 2014 20:40 kirsed wrote:
So the hype that tl is building around their documentary is making miss Korok more then ever.
You mean we're finally getting the bootcamp footage we were promised by hotbid over half a year ago? 
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EPT
