EPTI used to play Magic a long time ago and I was actually really surprised how much I liked Hearthstone initially. I'm really getting bored of it now, tho. It seems obvious to see the correct line in each situation and the amount of direct rng on cards is really not my thing. Obviously I haven't reached the skill cap of the game, I can just barely go infinite on arena and didn't even get to legendary in constructed, I could still improve a lot, deal with the metagame stuff, etc. Compared to Magic online, which was amazing (apart from the shit client), but I was just throwing money down the toilet, because I was getting owned so hard.
General Discussion - Page 4866
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
I used to play Magic a long time ago and I was actually really surprised how much I liked Hearthstone initially. I'm really getting bored of it now, tho. It seems obvious to see the correct line in each situation and the amount of direct rng on cards is really not my thing. Obviously I haven't reached the skill cap of the game, I can just barely go infinite on arena and didn't even get to legendary in constructed, I could still improve a lot, deal with the metagame stuff, etc. Compared to Magic online, which was amazing (apart from the shit client), but I was just throwing money down the toilet, because I was getting owned so hard. | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
It doesn't come across as a game Blizzard made for the sake of racking in money I don't love Hearthstone but my biggest issue with the game is specific cards where RNG (nat page and tinkmaster) can have a much bigger impact on the outcome than I'd like it to. It's fine for what it is and I think the game is well done overall. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Financially tho MTGO is simply not viable for casual people who don't want to drop the $$$ (aka me) but at least they are upfront about it lol. I really hope that HS lights a fire under WotC's ass tbh. Oke enough off topic srry lol. On February 25 2014 02:30 Kuroeeah wrote: I agree, Hearthstone has a great free to play model that you can go far in without spending a single penny. It's accessible to make it extremely easy to learn even if you've never played a TCG before. It doesn't come across as a game Blizzard made for the sake of racking in money Wat? I guess we have different perceptions about it then. That game's the most money-grubbing pay-to-progress bullshit i've ever bothered playing. Useless mobile games don't count because I don't play them  | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 25 2014 02:32 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat? I guess we have different perceptions about it then. That game's the most money-grubbing pay-to-progress bullshit i've ever bothered playing. Useless mobile games don't count because I don't play them I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 25 2014 02:32 Sn0_Man wrote: I guess we have different perceptions about it then. That game's the most money-grubbing pay-to-progress bullshit i've ever bothered playing. Useless mobile games don't count because I don't play them The single most successful choice in Blizzard's business model was taking advantage of the fact that being digital means they can design limited formats such that you don't keep the cards--meaning that they can remove the cost of packs from the entry fee for drafting. This in turn makes the limited format (Arena) incredibly easy to hop in and play and appealing both to casual players as a way to play with cards they don't own yet, as well as a means for more serious players to earn cards. Unfortunately the actual format itself is flawed and gets boring after a very short time. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I don't enjoy just building one straightforward deck and playing it, which is the only reasonable approach to playing the game for free outside of going 6+ wins every arena run. I'm a "brewer" but its pretty hard to brew when you can't play 90+% of your cool ideas since they revolve around mythicals and legendaries On February 25 2014 02:44 TheYango wrote: The single most successful choice in Blizzard's business model was taking advantage of the fact that being digital means they can design limited formats such that you don't keep the cards--meaning that they can remove the cost of packs from the entry fee for drafting. This in turn makes the limited format (Arena) incredibly easy to hop in and play and appealing both to casual players as a way to play with cards they don't own yet, as well as a means for more serious players to earn cards. Unfortunately the actual format itself is flawed and gets boring after a very short time. Agreed. I was originally very excited that arena had such a low entry barrier with such reasonable prospects of "going infinite". But it got boring really fast (way faster than I anticipated). | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
And then sometimes Arena is like Dota when the other team has pre-patch Earth Spirit, pre-nerf Wisp and Bat and all the other ridiculous broken shit, and you've got three melee carries, a Pudge playing on a cracker and one extremely sad Jakiro. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
As far as you feeling limited by not having enough cards to do well. What is your goal? People hit legendary from just playing for free very quickly without any legendaries in the decks, etc. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
If i want a rag I have to buy like 100 packs and hope to open enough dust to craft one... For the record, cracking packs in magic is pretty low EV and the fact that people do it there doesn't mean it makes it a reasonable approach in Hearthstone. I mean, hearthstone is supposed to be free. If I wanted to pay to play a CCG, I'd pay to play one with interesting features and depth and tournaments with prize support etc. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Also, this is getting way off topic, so if you really want to continue this discussion, take it to PMs. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
Since you guys enjoyed my first Pro Clockwerk video so much I made another one for you. Enjoy | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
They should have hero "tiers" with like common heroes on the rotation then rare/mythical/legendary heroes. And then you can't actually buy heroes you just buy random hero packs that 9 times out of ten only contain a rare. Then you have to sell 40 rares for one legendary, and by far the best heroes are legendary. Now thats a monetization structure! And people wonder why I love valve so much even when they fuck up. Dota's literally the best shit. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
if u really want to compete u either have to spend couple of thousand hours onto grinding arena or a shitton of money not saying its bad cuz hearthstone really is a joke as a competitive game also arenas for free if ur decent and thats most fun anyhow e: couple thousand is probably too much, but hundreds | ||
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
"everything has to be FASTER HARDER BIGGER MOST FUCKING EPIC!!!111111" gameplay isnt their focus anymore. i wont touch that moba. | ||
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
On February 25 2014 04:12 ScarPe wrote: blizz creates their games like this: "everything has to be FASTER HARDER BIGGER MOST FUCKING EPIC!!!111111" gameplay isnt their focus anymore. i wont touch that moba. And add terrible damage, before they double it. Sorry for the tasteless joke. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
On February 25 2014 04:12 teddyoojo wrote: if u really want to compete u either have to spend couple of thousand hours onto grinding arena or a shitton of money not saying its bad cuz hearthstone really is a joke as a competitive game also arenas for free if ur decent and thats most fun anyhow Yeah, that's because Hearthstone is not designed to be a competitive game. What is there to win in constructed? Rank doesn't give you anything. The only thing you gain by winning is completing daily quests faster and getting 100 gold every 3 wins. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I wonder how onerous it will be to make smurf accts. I've never had to make a 2nd bnet acct. | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On February 25 2014 04:18 Sn0_Man wrote: HotS is gonna be a hell of a lot of fun for the first 5 games or so smashing SC2/WoW players and then u'll run into experienced Dota players and it won't be fun anymore lol. I wonder how onerous it will be to make smurf accts. I've never had to make a 2nd bnet acct. inferior moba master race | ||
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goody153
44294 Posts
Still waiting for the mythical 3 great spirit to be played at one on the same side.(God no please no kaolin until he gets properly reworked) | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
DotA and sc2, for example, are not pay2win under any definition since one has access to the entire game. The other extreme is the blatant pay2win of something like the old WoT model, certain MMOs, or that of many exploitative mobile games in which it is required to pay to even compete on a fair level. The vast majority of "competitive" online games nowadays fall into something I'd like to call "freetogrind". This is a model in which *"in theory"* everything that can affect game balance is attainable from playing the game, but are simply nearly unattainable without strict devotion to the game (or paying). Things like LoL, Hearthstone, WorldofTanks, AoeOnline, etc. are all based on that to varying degrees. The key separation those games make is that it is possible to "be competitive" with a small amount of the game available to you. Be it unit, tank, champion choices etc, the games offer you the ability to roughly equivalent loadouts without the entire gamut of possibilities. Think of that as playing DotA where you have a limited hero pool or SC2 in which you only have one race. Those games are balanced at a certain level with certain comparable loadouts or setups. In relation to Hearthstone; after playing for a couple of months you'd likely have the cards (after disenchanting all non-vital cards) to build a "decent" deck that is probably pretty close to competitive. The advantage that money gives is simply time and grind to various levels and other options that are in theory equivalent (but are often marginally stronger to obtain more income). | ||
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