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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On January 27 2014 21:11 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 20:56 Liebig wrote:
There isn't probably that much skill difference between a 3.2k and 4.2k MMR, but I assume the difference in skill between 4.2k and 5.2k is huge. There's a huge skill difference between a 3.2k player and a 4.2k player. It's not even close. The 4.2k player has significant skills that are far beyond that of a 3.2k player, similar to the gap between a 4.2k player and a 5.2k player.
i call bullshit, ive played at both those skill areas and there's been barely any difference some of the time
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On January 27 2014 22:38 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2014 21:11 superstartran wrote:On January 27 2014 20:56 Liebig wrote:
There isn't probably that much skill difference between a 3.2k and 4.2k MMR, but I assume the difference in skill between 4.2k and 5.2k is huge. There's a huge skill difference between a 3.2k player and a 4.2k player. It's not even close. The 4.2k player has significant skills that are far beyond that of a 3.2k player, similar to the gap between a 4.2k player and a 5.2k player. i call bullshit, ive played at both those skill areas and there's been barely any difference some of the time
To add, I just dropped 600 mmr last week because i am doing A-Z around 2500 mmr and the skilldifference it isnt noticable at all. Only thing i do notice is i get alot more abandons and dq, it feels like around 40% of games are decided/ended by abandons.
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notail raging hard at es haha. i personally hate that hero too 
as for the above. i am 3300 solo and 3800 party....i don't think the skill discrepancy is significant between 3.2k and 4.2k
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There is no much difference between 3k and 4k MM . There is a slight notable difference between 3k and 5k.
The problem is not on the ranked MM but in how the teams are balanced and how the matches are set up. Its individually accurate but it sucks at a whole.
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It's hard to see difference in skill. This game is about little things and how often do stupid stuff. You can't really expect to see big plays from pub players every single game. I would say dota is more about "how bad you really are" not the opposite when you want to see players shine like in sc2, cs or quake. Do you stuff and don't feed!
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I'm sure there is a reasonable diference, on average, from games 1k apart. There is just a lot of variance on individual ratings and performance, so looking at individual players is less useful. But if you pitched 5 3k vs 5 4k players in several series, I would bet the 4k players would have a good advantage, at least most of the time.
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Our university's esports society is currently holding a dota tournament. We have 30 people signed up, ranging from 2,5 to 4,5K MMR. The difference in skill between the 3K and 4K players is definitely noticable, I don't know how people can argue the opposite.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
There's definitely a difference. I think a 3.2k player will have a very hard time beating a 4.2k player 1v1 mid, for example. Of course in a 5v5 game it's much harder to spot the difference than in a 1v1 matchup.
And you people can't be serious... "There is a slight notable difference between 3k and 5k." wat... that's a difference between, fro example Draskyl (I don't actually know his MMR, I assume it's around 5k) and a guy who has been playing Dota for 2 months. That's WAY more than a "slight notable difference".
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On January 27 2014 23:58 Laurens wrote:
Our university's esports society is currently holding a dota tournament. We have 30 people signed up, ranging from 2,5 to 4,5K MMR. The difference in skill between the 3K and 4K players is definitely noticable, I don't know how people can argue the opposite.
People argue because it will make them feel better about their own mmr. Just like ranked play in most other games where there is always one dude saying "I'm high MMR on smurf acc, gief mid or feed".
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I've grouped up with a lot of 3-3.5K players and there is a huge difference in skill level if I compare to some of the 4K players I've grouped with. Generally the 4K players make significantly fewer mistakes and are usually aware of the intricacies of the heroes and what items to build.
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Being at 3k is a huge difference from 4k. Maybe not mechanically, but you see 3k players doing stupid things all the time. Try to give an hero like bane to a 3k and then to a 4k. Worlds of difference. The 3k player will consistently forget spells, cast ultis at worst moments, react slower, dispel nightmares etc... the 4k do that on a much less regular basis.
They're both terrible though. Still not at 5k, but it looks like they're all terrible there too
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On January 27 2014 23:58 Laurens wrote:
Our university's esports society is currently holding a dota tournament. We have 30 people signed up, ranging from 2,5 to 4,5K MMR. The difference in skill between the 3K and 4K players is definitely noticable, I don't know how people can argue the opposite.
Well, first of all there's the 3k people who think they are really good and will claim there's not a big difference to feel good, just like people in silver in SC2 who claim they should be platinum. Second, there's probably a lot of people who are 4k and feel their teammates play bad far more than they should, and have had good experiences playing with lower ranked players, maybe friends etc.
I think the difference would be very noticeable in direct comparisons between players from such different ranks, though it might not feel like that when you're in the games.
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You're all generalizing.
I think one point that wasn't scratched much yet is that some people tend to wildly swing up and down with their mmr.
You can swing 200 mmr without doing anything noteworthy. If you change more up like picking heroes you want to learn you can considerably drop only to climb back up when you are finished with that exercise.
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Terrible is such a relative term.
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I've noticed in MM my opponents always have a motherfucking doctorate of Rat from the university of Bulldog whenever I try pushing or w/e, whereas when the tables are turned my teammates always group up and mill around aimlessly at towers they can't defend instead of taking objectives elsewhere like good rats should do.
On January 28 2014 00:59 Plansix wrote:
Terrible is such a relative term.
Well yes. But I need some descriptor for my friends who actively lose me games, even though I'm aware that I too am awful at Dota.
Honestly, people 500-1000 MMR below me are playable-with, but sometimes its hard because they have no fucking clue what they are doing wrong (usually its more what they AREN'T doing) and often you can't even tell them what to do because they don't know how to do it properly. Its like, "those 2 supports are just leeching xp, go smoke and kill mid or something" so they smoke up and then run in with the wrong guy first and feed instead of get a kill -.- So it often ends up being better to just let them do their thing instead of try to tell them what to do. And I'm quite certain that my better friends suffer the same issues playing with me.
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I don't know what defines a big difference, but I play with friends from a wide range of MMRs. Have you ever seen a 3k player queuing with a 4k or 5k player? You can tell straight away who's the 3k player. It's just not obvious to the 3k player what he's doing wrong.
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Netherlands6192 Posts
On January 28 2014 01:09 Sn0_Man wrote:I've noticed in MM my opponents always have a motherfucking doctorate of Rat from the university of Bulldog whenever I try pushing or w/e, whereas when the tables are turned my teammates always group up and mill around aimlessly at towers they can't defend instead of taking objectives elsewhere like good rats should do. Well yes. But I need some descriptor for my friends who actively lose me games, even though I'm aware that I too am awful at Dota. Honestly, people 500-1000 MMR below me are playable-with, but sometimes its hard because they have no fucking clue what they are doing wrong (usually its more what they AREN'T doing) and often you can't even tell them what to do because they don't know how to do it properly. Its like, "those 2 supports are just leeching xp, go smoke and kill mid or something" so they smoke up and then run in with the wrong guy first and feed instead of get a kill -.- So it often ends up being better to just let them do their thing instead of try to tell them what to do. And I'm quite certain that my better friends suffer the same issues playing with me.
^ sounds like you need to play more games with me. Let me carry you. Ursa.
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Small example about my experience in MMR below:
+ Show Spoiler +Just played a CM ranked with a guy who never played CM before, he was 4k and didnt even know a "captain" was picking all the heroes for the complete team and banning, etc.
Anyway, he was really oblivious with that, but in contrast he was kinda good on his hero, probalby top3 on our team of 5. So, sometimes you dont know what's gonna happen.
Other game, captain 1st picks KOTL without even wanting a PL and thinking about a trilane with no stuns. He had 4.3k. That's what leads me to believe that in 4-4.5k there's a lot of incertanty if your captain is capable of draftin as he should, and seems that a lot of those dont watch pro games.
thats what i've seen so far, just my experience.
On the Difference, i agree 1000 MMR should be noticeable, but there's too many variables in a 5v5 dota game to just take that.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
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How do you not stop at 1234 games?
Fail imo.
Also chen just doesn't seem that fun even if the micro wasn't an issue for you o.o
On January 28 2014 01:19 DV G wrote:
Just played a CM ranked with a guy who never played CM before, he was 4k and didnt even know a "captain" was picking all the heroes for the complete team and banning, etc.
Anyway, he was really oblivious with that, but in contrast he was kinda good on his hero, probalby top3 on our team of 5. So, sometimes you dont know what's gonna happen.
Other game, captain 1st picks KOTL without even wanting a PL and thinking about a trilane with no stuns. He had 4.3k. That's what leads me to believe that in 4-4.5k there's a lot of incertanty if your captain is capable of draftin as he should, and seems that a lot of those dont watch pro games.
thats what i've seen so far, just my experience.
On the Difference, i agree 1000 MMR should be noticeable, but there's too many variables in a 5v5 dota game to just take that.
This isn't the QQ thread.
KotL can work fine in no-stun trilanes (especially with heroes like undying too). That lane is pretty damn hard to contest even if the enemies have 3 stuns.
People's concepts of good drafts varies wildly at pretty much every level, including the pro level these days to an extent so complaining about that is pointless. Watching pro games and drafting pro lineups really doesn't make you more likely to win. Just because the pros are picking "carry X" doesn't mean its going to help your team more in every situation.
Whereas people who have predetermined ideas about what is "good" often aren't flexible enough to handle the weird-ass drafts that come at you in matchmaking.
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EPT
