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On November 22 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:
Also team members who don't buy TPs.
This is such an interesting aspect too. I'm sort of a n00b and just recently learned what a massive difference it makes to always have a TP. Before that point, I didn't really get it, I thought the main point was to have a TP in case you got chased or stuck behind enemy lines and had to get out, which I found such a rare occurance that I didn't want to waste my gold on it. Then you start playing with people you know and realize how massively you can turn teamfights, stop ganks, save towers etc by simply having a TP on you, and it becomes infuriating when people don't abuse how OP tp scrolls are.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On the other hand you have the team mates who buy way too many TP scrolls and TP even if the distance between him and tower is very small. Or if there is nothing for him to do when he TPs to that tower and just circles around the tower for a while instead of walking.
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On November 22 2013 02:34 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:
Also team members who don't buy TPs.
This is such an interesting aspect too. I'm sort of a n00b and just recently learned what a massive difference it makes to always have a TP. Before that point, I didn't really get it, I thought the main point was to have a TP in case you got chased or stuck behind enemy lines and had to get out, which I found such a rare occurance that I didn't want to waste my gold on it. Then you start playing with people you know and realize how massively you can turn teamfights, stop ganks, save towers etc by simply having a TP on you, and it becomes infuriating when people don't abuse how OP tp scrolls are.
When I started to teach my buddies dota, it was the first thing I taught then, to buy 2 TPs when you respawn. I even bought them for them just to make sure they had them. Much like smoke, I found that new players really underestimate their power until they are shown just how good they are.
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Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better.
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On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better.
you buy 2 since youre most likely tping out to a lane from the base, if you have 2 then you have one more if you find yourself away from a side shop.
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On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better.
If it's good enough for Dendi, it's good enough for me. He always buys two, uses one and keeps the other on tap for later.
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On November 21 2013 23:32 Animzor wrote:
Playing carry in a pub is the worst thing in the world. It doesn't matter if you get ganked every time you show your face in any lane. You're still noob if you dont get farm. The team has no responsibility in this. And they are allowed to steal your farm, you cant complain when they do.
Jugg, PA, luna, spectre, gyro, naix, LD, CK, xin, drow, riki, mirana, DK, sven, kunkka, alche, huskar, bristleback, slardar, SK, weaver, ursa,; clinkz, viper, razor, SF, tiny, naga have some builds to really contribute early midgame and are not dependant of your 4 mates establishing a defensive map control of the map 4o5. AM must be like 2 18 in the last 20 games I saw him in pubs, his wins basicly coming from a won 4o5 from his mates. So just don't pick AM, PL, void, sniper, morph, lycan, bloodseeker and meepo(really need good support early). I listed almost all carries and semi carries, I enjoy playing carry as much as other roles but I don't risk myself in being a gold whore in solo queue anymore.
If you know you won't have much support, avoid battlefury, midas, hotd; radiance as first item. LD is an exception because he's a beast with just XP for a good moment of time and there are decent chances you slowed the ennemy carry farm a lot.
edit for TP : don't put your TP on cooldown mindlessly. 1 min is long and the support getting decent xp/gold early is rarely bad.
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On November 22 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better. If it's good enough for Dendi, it's good enough for me. He always buys two, uses one and keeps the other on tap for later.
I also see Sing buy shit items and win anyways but that doesn't mean it's good.
On November 22 2013 02:49 deichkind wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better. you buy 2 since youre most likely tping out to a lane from the base, if you have 2 then you have one more if you find yourself away from a side shop.
Most of the time people waste TPs, they buy two and then TP to a tier 2 tower and do absolutly nothing. 135 gold wasted.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On November 22 2013 02:40 Kipsate wrote:
On the other hand you have the team mates who buy way too many TP scrolls and TP even if the distance between him and tower is very small. Or if there is nothing for him to do when he TPs to that tower and just circles around the tower for a while instead of walking.
When comparing the two extremes of not-buying-one and using-too-many I prefer having teammates that use-too-many.
And yeah I generally try to always go out with two.
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On November 22 2013 02:52 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:40 Kipsate wrote:
On the other hand you have the team mates who buy way too many TP scrolls and TP even if the distance between him and tower is very small. Or if there is nothing for him to do when he TPs to that tower and just circles around the tower for a while instead of walking. When comparing the two extremes of not-buying-one and using-too-many I prefer having teammates that use-too-many. And yeah I generally try to always go out with two.
I always check my reliable gold before buying a second one. I don't want to touch it for this. Reliable gold is better spent on big items than on wards/TP you often can get with unreliable gold. Sure there are exceptions but it helps.
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On November 22 2013 02:52 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote:On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better. If it's good enough for Dendi, it's good enough for me. He always buys two, uses one and keeps the other on tap for later. I also see Sing buying shit items and win anyways but that doesn't mean it's good.
Well it hasn't failed me yet and I always have one tp on me to go where I need to. Sry you disagree, maybe your just way better than me and can always perfectly span out your trips to the side shop and never be caught without a TP.
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On November 22 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 01:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
My biggest problem with pubs is when a lane is losing they insist on continuing to go there and get killed, then complain about lack of help from teammates and threaten to feed or throw the game, instead of simply abandoning that lane and trying to win the other two. I so agree. Or people who refuse to push or trade towers because it's good. Played with a rubic yesterday who didn't wand to get agressive "unit he got septer." I died inside. Luck Sven was all about yoloing down the tower and crushing all fools in our path. Also team members who don't buy TPs.
I was actually surprised when playing in reddit league people about how few people buy tps - i guess its the major indicator of the skill level of the people you play with.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
having two TPs is retarded, just walk to the lane
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It's a muuuuuuch better rule of thumb to always leave base with 2 TPs than to "try to remember TPs".
It might not be fully optimal but its definitely not hurting anything.
If you are gonna lose because you spent 135 gold a minute earlier than you had to, well I'm sorry but you probably have much bigger issues. You are gonna win a LOT more games due to always having the EXTRA tp than you are gonna win by briefly having more gold that you can't even spend anyway because you need to save it for the next tp.
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On November 22 2013 02:52 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:49 deichkind wrote:On November 22 2013 02:46 BlitzerSC wrote:
Most of the time you don't even need 2 TPs, that's a dumb rule. Also you shouldn't always TP to a tower, sometimes walking all the way there is better. you buy 2 since youre most likely tping out to a lane from the base, if you have 2 then you have one more if you find yourself away from a side shop. Most of the time people waste TPs, they buy two and then TP to a tier 2 tower and do absolutly nothing. 135 gold wasted.
If his judgment is poor enough to use a TP then idle, then the problem doesn't lie with buying 2 TPs but with the player himself. It's hardly a waste of gold. You could potentially help a teammate out who's getting ganked and counter-gank, or help take out a tower. Both of which are profitable for you and your team, but require you to immediately be at that location no matter where you are. Also if you're one of those who prefer to just walk to help teammates (or walk to sideshop to buy TP), and make everyone wait for you, then you could potentially miss a window of opportunity just because you wanted to save 135 gold.
On November 22 2013 02:10 Sn0_Man wrote:
How is there absolutely no dota going on today.
CURSE YOU MLG!!!
(lol)
I'm actually glad for the short break. There have been too many events going on lately ha
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United States47024 Posts
The main problem with the "buy 2 TPs" rule is that it gets people in the habit of TPing from base to lane when in most cases you need to evaluate the likelihood that you need that TP in the next 65 seconds.
If you're a mid hero and you went home, and the enemy mid pushed lane into tower, your first instinct will be to TP so you don't miss that farm, but if he pushed lane into tower, it's likely that he's going to grab a rune and one of your sidelanes may be in danger in the next 30 seconds. If you blow that TP, then you increase the danger to them because you can't respond to the gank and lose out on a potential big counter-kill against the opposing mid.
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The only problem with my 2 tp habit is sometimes I buy 2 TP's, run to lane, have big teamfight, run home, then unthinkingly buy 2 more tp's. Now how am I supposed to use 4 TP's?  (obviously at that point I just tp to lane because fuck it).
On November 22 2013 03:06 TheYango wrote:
The main problem with the "buy 2 TPs" rule is that it gets people in the habit of TPing from base to lane when in most cases you need to evaluate the likelihood that you need that TP in the next 65 seconds.
If you're a mid hero and you went home, and the enemy mid pushed lane into tower, your first instinct will be to TP so you don't miss that farm, but if he pushed lane into tower, it's likely that he's going to grab a rune and one of your sidelanes may be in danger in the next 30 seconds. If you blow that TP, then you increase the danger to then and lose out on a potential big counter-kill against the opposing mid.
Maybe buying 2 tp's all the time enables bad habits, but IMO thats just mid not thinking it through. Which happens all the time but I find it REALLY hard to believe that if he bought 1 tp he'd make a different decision.
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On November 22 2013 02:57 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:19 Plansix wrote:On November 22 2013 01:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
My biggest problem with pubs is when a lane is losing they insist on continuing to go there and get killed, then complain about lack of help from teammates and threaten to feed or throw the game, instead of simply abandoning that lane and trying to win the other two. I so agree. Or people who refuse to push or trade towers because it's good. Played with a rubic yesterday who didn't wand to get agressive "unit he got septer." I died inside. Luck Sven was all about yoloing down the tower and crushing all fools in our path. Also team members who don't buy TPs. I was actually surprised when playing in reddit league people about how few people buy tps - i guess its the major indicator of the skill level of the people you play with.
The kids I play with are really bad about it to. I always have at least one because some of our games are such hot messes that I can't make it to side shop. And there is nothing worse than leaving a teammate hanging because you forgot a TP.
Maybe people who are way better than me don't need to buy 2, use one. But it works for me and a few buddies, but we are pretty bad.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 22 2013 03:06 Sn0_Man wrote:The only problem with my 2 tp habit is sometimes I buy 2 TP's, run to lane, have big teamfight, run home, then unthinkingly buy 2 more tp's. Now how am I supposed to use 4 TP's? (obviously at that point I just tp to lane because fuck it).
There's nothing wrong with buying 2 TPs if you know that it's very often not the right play to immediately use one. Buying 2 TPs often gets justified by the immediate use of one of them though, which is very often wrong.
On November 22 2013 03:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Maybe buying 2 tp's all the time enables bad habits, but IMO thats just mid not thinking it through. Which happens all the time but I find it REALLY hard to believe that if he bought 1 tp he'd make a different decision.
On November 22 2013 02:49 deichkind wrote:
you buy 2 since youre most likely tping out to a lane from the base, if you have 2 then you have one more if you find yourself away from a side shop.
This is the kind of thinking I wanted people to be careful about. Buying two TPs is fine, but it's not justified because you're immediately going to use one. That's not why you buy two.
The more justifiable reason is that if you use one and don't end up near the side shop, it's not always the case that you will have free courier time to send you a fresh one in the next 65 seconds.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
If I'm a support where I have to be incredibly careful with what little gold I have, then sure I usually stick to one (to maximise reliable gold) and ferry them out to me on the courier with wards/whatever else. As a core though it becomes situational, and it's much easier to simply say 'keep two on yourself whenever possible' to someone who is new to the game.
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EPT
