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On November 01 2013 23:51 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:
Dota sages, I need some quick advice: nightstaker and Bloodseek have been mauling my normal support picks of CM and even visage. Beyond earthshaker, what are some other more survivable supports with a solid disable to deal with those ganking assholes? My friend keep saying omi, but I doubt them and omi always betrays me. TP Scroll, Wards, Ghost Scepter, Force, Euls CM should actually be one of the more resilient heroes due to her kit, it doesn't really matter what support you are playing if they stick to you and you aren't using abilities properly.
None of those items besides TP and wards really come into effect when I think Plansix* is having the most trouble.
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On November 01 2013 23:51 Esoterikk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:
Dota sages, I need some quick advice: nightstaker and Bloodseek have been mauling my normal support picks of CM and even visage. Beyond earthshaker, what are some other more survivable supports with a solid disable to deal with those ganking assholes? My friend keep saying omi, but I doubt them and omi always betrays me. TP Scroll, Wards, Ghost Scepter, Force, Euls CM should actually be one of the more resilient heroes due to her kit, it doesn't really matter what support you are playing if they stick to you and you aren't using abilities properly.
It's more of an early game thing. Someone feeds that NS or BS and then they at so fast they can close the gap and have a few levels on me. It's mostly me wanting supports that survive long enough to TP out even if I am dealing with a slightly fed BS or NS.
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Jakiro has solid base strength/armor and strength gain. Also an extremely long range disable to sit behind your buddies with and ambush those assholes. You have to play him a bit different but jakiro shouldn't rack up the deaths the way certain other heroes often do.
Chen does well since even if you are silenced one would hope you have at least 1 creep with some sort of disable to slow them down, plus he's a mek carrier which makes all the difference vs those guys.
You can also play more non-traditional supports like sven who really counteracts NS with your own armor and movespeed and a very legit stun.
Also since his most recent armor change necrolyte takes literally no damage from right clicks (thanks IceFraud) but people might report you for being a dirty necro picker. Okay this last suggestion is definitely a troll.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 01 2013 20:40 icystorage wrote:
what do you guys think about huge patch changes (like 6.79) affecting professional dota in the long run?
if we get stable leagues and such and having 6.79~ish patch changes in the middle of the season, do you think its good or bad? (bad in a sense that there is no 'stability' and good since it keeps stuff 'fresh')
To be honest I don't care about stability or continuity of a league, I want to play and watch fun games.
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On November 02 2013 00:09 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 20:40 icystorage wrote:
what do you guys think about huge patch changes (like 6.79) affecting professional dota in the long run?
if we get stable leagues and such and having 6.79~ish patch changes in the middle of the season, do you think its good or bad? (bad in a sense that there is no 'stability' and good since it keeps stuff 'fresh') To be honest I don't care about stability or continuity of a league, I want to play and watch fun games.
Agreed. I prefer a game that reward open minds and people who make creative line ups, not mastering 3 heroes and abusing them to the end of time. One of the best parts about professional dota is seeing players with deep rosters of heroes the can play. Puppy is my favorite captain because he can play so many supports and is really impressive with all of them.
Also, thanks for the tips snowman, I'll get some double dragon games under my belt.
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Seconding Chen. If you have decent micro, you can zone out any ganker with centaurs or hellbears. Just remember to position them proactively because neutrals move pretty slow.
Also, 3 satyrs is hilarious and fun to use. Hitting three shockwaves in a quick succession is ~350 damage which is enough to scare away any tower divers. 
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Alright free jakiro tip: When you are getting chased by a melee, dont turn and icepath him just throw your icepath IN FRONT OF YOU and run over it. They have to stand around and wait for it to expire or get stunned.
PS getting 1 level of liquid fire now is so good since its an extra 50 dmg when you trade like a single autoattack.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
liquid fire is really good now imo
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Oh those are some good tips. I only have two game with double dragon under my belt, so it's appreciated.
I'm not bad with Chen, but the folks I play with generally have a rough time soloing a lane. He might be to "greedy" for the people I play with against a night staker or BS. Still, I'll consider him.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
I wouldn't recommend chen tbh, I thought I could play him because i could farm up a quick mek etc. then i stacked with a few people with actually legit mmrs and was informed that i didnt know the hero at all
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On November 01 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:
Dota sages, I need some quick advice: nightstaker and Bloodseek have been mauling my normal support picks of CM and even visage. Beyond earthshaker, what are some other more survivable supports with a solid disable to deal with those ganking assholes? My friend keep saying omi, but I doubt them and omi always betrays me.
I'm no sage, but I rather like Bane. Nightmare is a great disable vs a single target, sap gives you a bit of extra wiggleroom on HP with the health absorbtion, and once Fiends Grip comes online if your teammates are paying attention you can turn around ganks from a diving NS/BS quickly etc
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I think Chen is one of the worst supports to play when you're solo queuing.
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If you're a true try hard scum, you can get enfeeble level 1 and do a drive by on the enemy mid.
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly, it's really not support selection, it's just better map sense, and knowing where they are. If they find you somewhere on your own, you're going to die in most cases. Keep track of where they have vision, and don't haphazardly wander there unless you know they can't catch you. If he's wandering somewhere don't have vision like mucking around in your jungle or trying a stupid dive, he better die for it. That's not just on you, but on your team as well--but if your team isn't in a position to counter-kill them then just don't be there.
In fights, it's positioning. If they're going to dive to kill you, they better die for it, and you better get off your spells before the inevitable silence comes down. If that happens, so be it. Obviously some supports do have a much harder time getting those spells off thanks to their prohibitive ranges (CM and Rhasta have a hard time teamfighting against facerush heroes because of this).
Omni's actually awkward against those 2 because while you might be hard to kill, having on-demand point-and-click silences hurts Omni's teamfight effectiveness really hard (which is where Omni is most useful). You can't just Repel yourself every fight because your carry needs it, but your overall low casting ranges means that it's not hard for them to find a spot to pop a silence on you, and that might just lock you out of being useful for the entire fight.
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On November 02 2013 00:52 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, it's really not support selection, it's just better map sense, and knowing where they are. If they find you somewhere on your own, you're going to die in most cases. Keep track of where they have vision, and don't haphazardly wander there unless you know they can't catch you. If he's wandering somewhere don't have vision like mucking around in your jungle or trying a stupid dive, he better die for it. That's not just on you, but on your team as well--but if your team isn't in a position to counter-kill them then just don't be there.
In fights, it's positioning. If they're going to dive to kill you, they better die for it, and you better get off your spells before the inevitable silence comes down. If that happens, so be it. Obviously some supports do have a much harder time getting those spells off thanks to their prohibitive ranges (CM and Rhasta have a hard time teamfighting against facerush heroes because of this).
Omni's actually awkward against those 2 because while you might be hard to kill, having on-demand point-and-click silences hurts Omni's teamfight effectiveness really hard (which is where Omni is most useful). You can't just Repel yourself every fight because your carry needs it, but your overall low casting ranges means that it's not hard for them to find a spot to pop a silence on you, and that might just lock you out of being useful for the entire fight.
The problem about dealing with Night Stalker is that one of the most effective ways to deal with his are TP's and 5 manning.
That's really hard to do in pubs.
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On November 02 2013 00:38 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 23:47 Plansix wrote:
Dota sages, I need some quick advice: nightstaker and Bloodseek have been mauling my normal support picks of CM and even visage. Beyond earthshaker, what are some other more survivable supports with a solid disable to deal with those ganking assholes? My friend keep saying omi, but I doubt them and omi always betrays me. I'm no sage, but I rather like Bane. Nightmare is a great disable vs a single target, sap gives you a bit of extra wiggleroom on HP with the health absorbtion, and once Fiends Grip comes online if your teammates are paying attention you can turn around ganks from a diving NS/BS quickly etc
The issue is that these gankers are the ones with single target silences (which is what makes it so hard for supports). Bane doesn't do anything while silenced (although with proper positioning he can save allies with nightmare it is true).
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I agree with Yango, like I said, it's not really a hero specific thing, it's mostly map control, vision, and awareness. Abaddon is the main support I can think of that would be useful.
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On November 02 2013 00:59 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2013 00:52 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, it's really not support selection, it's just better map sense, and knowing where they are. If they find you somewhere on your own, you're going to die in most cases. Keep track of where they have vision, and don't haphazardly wander there unless you know they can't catch you. If he's wandering somewhere don't have vision like mucking around in your jungle or trying a stupid dive, he better die for it. That's not just on you, but on your team as well--but if your team isn't in a position to counter-kill them then just don't be there.
In fights, it's positioning. If they're going to dive to kill you, they better die for it, and you better get off your spells before the inevitable silence comes down. If that happens, so be it. Obviously some supports do have a much harder time getting those spells off thanks to their prohibitive ranges (CM and Rhasta have a hard time teamfighting against facerush heroes because of this).
Omni's actually awkward against those 2 because while you might be hard to kill, having on-demand point-and-click silences hurts Omni's teamfight effectiveness really hard (which is where Omni is most useful). You can't just Repel yourself every fight because your carry needs it, but your overall low casting ranges means that it's not hard for them to find a spot to pop a silence on you, and that might just lock you out of being useful for the entire fight. The problem about dealing with Night Stalker is that one of the most effective ways to deal with his are TP's and 5 manning. That's really hard to do in pubs.
I normally play with 3-5 friend, but they are slow on the trigger with TPs.
Yango, I know map awareness and being generally be good at dota. I appreciate the advice. But I also think some of the heroes I was using May have contributed to the problem as well. So I wanted to know what heroes would match up well against these early gankers.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
If you just have a TP you should be able to TP away as soon as you see NS diving
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On November 02 2013 01:23 Targe wrote:
If you just have a TP you should be able to TP away as soon as you see NS diving
Doubt it, especially with reduced ward range when he hits 6 (and if hes good and smokes...well). Also, Void cancels TPs
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EPT
