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On October 24 2013 10:22 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 10:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 24 2013 09:43 teapoted wrote:On October 24 2013 09:03 Kuroeeah wrote:
When demon is serious about analysis and isn't being boneheaded about things, he's very insightful and smart about the game especially because he is experienced as a competitive player.
When demon is YOLO, #egslayer2013, #fitnessdedicated>MLGqualifiers well.. Yeah I don't know that whole thing played out pretty much as I thought it would and still I feel the same about guest choice. Not that he was wrong about anything or was 'being a bonehead', but compared to like the people I mentioned previously, it's a different level of analysis. I can't say I heard anything new or interesting, if anything I think people were way too kind on all the changes. Hell Cyborgmatt sounds like he's paid by icefrog the amount of skirting around finding faults. I mean specifically asked 'what was bad or what would you like to have changed' and that 'vanguard wasn't buffed enough'. The game aint perfect. Like the Roshan change was only looked at as a positive when there's also the quite obvious situation where it can affect the winner of a game by random chance. You win a team-fight, you can't take rosh until the enemy respawns. A different day you take Rosh and it changes the game. Or another scenario like today you have a support sitting there for 3 minutes waiting, that's not interesting gameplay. I'm not saying it's 100% a negative change, but it was just such a rose-tinted view. A lot of people have taken issue with several things in this patch and they made it sound like everyone's fine with everything. (although granted compared to other gaming communities reaction to change then people are very happy with changes, but that's just how the dota community is) I think taking the stance that "i'll wait and see if its bad before i comment" is positive rather than bitching like you seem to want. Good thing you aren't developing the game then. I would very much hope that any major balance changes made to a competitive game were created with concrete purpose in mind beyond "oh let's just change this because it's stale and hope everything goes okay". The Roshan change is a major change and players have a right to expect good reason behind the change. Too bad I have yet to hear such a reason.
LOL. this stuff has been tested for so long. ice frog doesn't just throw DOTA UPDATES out without testing usually extensive amounts of it. also just making up arguments to argue against is pretty dumb.
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On October 24 2013 10:22 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 10:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 24 2013 09:43 teapoted wrote:On October 24 2013 09:03 Kuroeeah wrote:
When demon is serious about analysis and isn't being boneheaded about things, he's very insightful and smart about the game especially because he is experienced as a competitive player.
When demon is YOLO, #egslayer2013, #fitnessdedicated>MLGqualifiers well.. Yeah I don't know that whole thing played out pretty much as I thought it would and still I feel the same about guest choice. Not that he was wrong about anything or was 'being a bonehead', but compared to like the people I mentioned previously, it's a different level of analysis. I can't say I heard anything new or interesting, if anything I think people were way too kind on all the changes. Hell Cyborgmatt sounds like he's paid by icefrog the amount of skirting around finding faults. I mean specifically asked 'what was bad or what would you like to have changed' and that 'vanguard wasn't buffed enough'. The game aint perfect. Like the Roshan change was only looked at as a positive when there's also the quite obvious situation where it can affect the winner of a game by random chance. You win a team-fight, you can't take rosh until the enemy respawns. A different day you take Rosh and it changes the game. Or another scenario like today you have a support sitting there for 3 minutes waiting, that's not interesting gameplay. I'm not saying it's 100% a negative change, but it was just such a rose-tinted view. A lot of people have taken issue with several things in this patch and they made it sound like everyone's fine with everything. (although granted compared to other gaming communities reaction to change then people are very happy with changes, but that's just how the dota community is) I think taking the stance that "i'll wait and see if its bad before i comment" is positive rather than bitching like you seem to want. Good thing you aren't developing the game then. I would very much hope that any major balance changes made to a competitive game were created with concrete purpose in mind beyond "oh let's just change this because it's stale and hope everything goes okay". The Roshan change is a major change and players have a right to expect good reason behind the change. Too bad I have yet to hear such a reason.
Why the negativity? I mean seriously, the patch just came out, we've just barely started to grasp the depth of the changes and there you are whining for "i have yet to hear such a reason for a change...or any change". IF doesnt owe you a explaination. Your supposed to figure out how to play around his rules for the game, not him giving it to you
This is a game. Changes are good to keep things fresh. Icefrog obviously has reasons for making those changes, even the Roshan change has been explained by many people that it prevents the stalemate coldwar at the rosh pit because of the randomness.
Give it time. when someone has been right for so long, i will give them the benefit of the doubt. icefrog deserves that.
Besides, it's fun when the entire game is shaken up. It's like playing a brand new game. It's a period of discovery and adventure.
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On October 24 2013 10:43 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 10:22 writer22816 wrote:On October 24 2013 10:02 PrinceXizor wrote:On October 24 2013 09:43 teapoted wrote:On October 24 2013 09:03 Kuroeeah wrote:
When demon is serious about analysis and isn't being boneheaded about things, he's very insightful and smart about the game especially because he is experienced as a competitive player.
When demon is YOLO, #egslayer2013, #fitnessdedicated>MLGqualifiers well.. Yeah I don't know that whole thing played out pretty much as I thought it would and still I feel the same about guest choice. Not that he was wrong about anything or was 'being a bonehead', but compared to like the people I mentioned previously, it's a different level of analysis. I can't say I heard anything new or interesting, if anything I think people were way too kind on all the changes. Hell Cyborgmatt sounds like he's paid by icefrog the amount of skirting around finding faults. I mean specifically asked 'what was bad or what would you like to have changed' and that 'vanguard wasn't buffed enough'. The game aint perfect. Like the Roshan change was only looked at as a positive when there's also the quite obvious situation where it can affect the winner of a game by random chance. You win a team-fight, you can't take rosh until the enemy respawns. A different day you take Rosh and it changes the game. Or another scenario like today you have a support sitting there for 3 minutes waiting, that's not interesting gameplay. I'm not saying it's 100% a negative change, but it was just such a rose-tinted view. A lot of people have taken issue with several things in this patch and they made it sound like everyone's fine with everything. (although granted compared to other gaming communities reaction to change then people are very happy with changes, but that's just how the dota community is) I think taking the stance that "i'll wait and see if its bad before i comment" is positive rather than bitching like you seem to want. Good thing you aren't developing the game then. I would very much hope that any major balance changes made to a competitive game were created with concrete purpose in mind beyond "oh let's just change this because it's stale and hope everything goes okay". The Roshan change is a major change and players have a right to expect good reason behind the change. Too bad I have yet to hear such a reason. LOL. this stuff has been tested for so long. ice frog doesn't just throw DOTA UPDATES out without testing usually extensive amounts of it. also just making up arguments to argue against is pretty dumb.
The testers aren't proplayers tho, else we would have leaks. And if the patches were really tested, the obvious bugs that everyone find after 2 minutes of gameplay every patch release wouldn't exist.
Also for the first time it's actually not icefrog who released this patch. Well he made the patch (certainly), but the symbolic is strong that he wasn't the one to post it.
Also to above, I think IF doesn't explain the changes to just let the players explore and do whatever they want to do with a patch without being influenced. Your roshan logic doesn't work tho, because your argument works both ways. It doesn't prevent stalemate, actually it encourages it. What it also encourage is gambling, which I find a bad thing, at least in theory. Perhaps it'll work in practice because it'll be a trade instead of a gamble.
I think, to answer to what created this debate in the first place, that the original poster was regretting that no one defended this point of view in the show, some of the changes are controversial but the show was in total denial of reality.
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Vatican City State2902 Posts
Actually some testers are pro players from what I remember. But he can't do too many pro testers otherwise some teams get unfair advantages.
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Play testers have a history of not leaking.
The first rule of the test club is you do not talk about the test club.
The second rule of the test club is you DO NOT TALK about the test club.
Last time I heard about people talking inside dota beta testing was on the dota allstars forum. Which was an entire different era in many respects.
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On October 24 2013 11:10 Mataza wrote:
Play testers have a history of not leaking.
The first rule of the test club is you do not talk about the test club.
The second rule of the test club is you DO NOT TALK about the test club.
Last time I heard about people talking inside dota beta testing was on the dota allstars forum. Which was an entire different era in many respects.
Yeah it makes sense, if someone talks he risks to not be in the next patch test. But it has to be a real fucking fightclub to have zero leak.
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im sure IF has his own fight club league.
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IceFrog used to have a blog on which he answered some mailbag questions.
He used to play element TD when not working on Dota!
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i'm pretty sure he occasionally reads through the playdota site. dev.dota2.com on the otherhand, even EE-sama would show mercy
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On October 24 2013 10:37 TheYango wrote:
You don't have the mana to support all 3 orbs' spells, and low level Invoke CD is abusable if your opponent knows you have weak spells invoked.
Low level invoke spells are pretty weak, and most are extremely expensive (meteor, icewall, ghost, suntrike, deafening).
Alacrity looks interesting, but turns out a level 1 forged spirit lasts longer and gives more damage.
Maybe somebody will come up with some clever level 3 or 4 combo.
Cold snap: 90+60 = 150 damage? for 100 mana, +30 per level
icewall: 18 damage
emp: 50 damage, pure, +25 per level
tornado: 115 damage
sunstrike: 100 damage for 175 mana pure, +62.5 per level
chaos meteor: not sure
deafening: 40 damage
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icewall is a lot more than 18 if you land it right because it guarantees at least like 4-5 autoattacks
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icewall is like a 20% slow at level 1 quas.
Found that out the hard way.
I thought i was soooooo clever trying to gank the sidelanes with icewall at the early levels...
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On October 24 2013 11:16 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 11:10 Mataza wrote:
Play testers have a history of not leaking.
The first rule of the test club is you do not talk about the test club.
The second rule of the test club is you DO NOT TALK about the test club.
Last time I heard about people talking inside dota beta testing was on the dota allstars forum. Which was an entire different era in many respects. Yeah it makes sense, if someone talks he risks to not be in the next patch test. But it has to be a real fucking fightclub to have zero leak.
Fight Club leaked like crazy :D
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On October 24 2013 12:18 PassiveAce wrote:
icewall is like a 20% slow at level 1 quas.
Found that out the hard way.
I thought i was soooooo clever trying to gank the sidelanes with icewall at the early levels...
Might work if you could somehow line it up aiming back to their tower and convince them to run along it the whole way.
Nah, who am I kidding.
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So I'm going to try out Broodmother for the first time in 6.79 for a few games, what you guys think my game plan should be?
Go on offlane, leech off XP and try to last hit as much as possible without dying, and split push. Probably won't work in pubs as well as I'd like to, but I hope I manage...
What do you guys think of Tranquils on Brood? Seems good on paper and perfect for going in and out for last hits...
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Tranquils breaks everyone you attack, it's not a good item for her I don't think.
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On October 24 2013 14:06 trinxified wrote:
So I'm going to try out Broodmother for the first time in 6.79 for a few games, what you guys think my game plan should be?
Go on offlane, leech off XP and try to last hit as much as possible without dying, and split push. Probably won't work in pubs as well as I'd like to, but I hope I manage...
What do you guys think of Tranquils on Brood? Seems good on paper and perfect for going in and out for last hits...
Get treads.
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Tranquils are more of a roaming support item imo, there is almost no reason to build it over treads/phase on most laners now.
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On October 24 2013 14:12 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 14:06 trinxified wrote:
So I'm going to try out Broodmother for the first time in 6.79 for a few games, what you guys think my game plan should be?
Go on offlane, leech off XP and try to last hit as much as possible without dying, and split push. Probably won't work in pubs as well as I'd like to, but I hope I manage...
What do you guys think of Tranquils on Brood? Seems good on paper and perfect for going in and out for last hits... Get treads.
Phaseboots.
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EPT
