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On April 19 2012 19:54 Tryhat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 19:13 TheYango wrote:On April 19 2012 19:06 Tryhat wrote:
I never understood why people suggest drums instead of vanguard. They're nothing alike. Items that are better and cheaper than drums for survivability: Ogre club, PMS (likely), Vitality Booster, any Armor+Magic Res combo. Then there are things like Ultimate Orb, Sange, Heaven's Halberd, etc. Also, if you a buy a vit booster or ogre club or something like that you can upgrade it into an actual late game item, instead of just wasting a slot like you are with drums.
Okay if you like drums, but I don't understand how it in any way is a vanguard replacement. I've seen it suggested on ranged heroes instead of vanguard as well. Can someone explain? You don't buy Drums for just generic survivability. You buy Drum's for early teamfighting power. Which is what many of those heroes want, and what many people bough pre-nerf Vanguard for (e.g. back when ranged Vanguard was still absurd). Janggo doesn't replace the exact functionality, but it fills the implicit purpose that many people often are accustomed to getting Vanguard for. The only other item in the game that gives a comparable mix of both self fighting stats AND team benefit at that stage of the game is Mekansm, and Mek is both mana-intensive to use, and is worthless in multiples. In the case of Panda, you're not interested in a straight survivability item--so long as your ultimate is up, surviving a fight isn't your problem. What you want is a teamfighting item that advances your up-front fighting power, both inside your Ultimate and out, and that's what Janggo accomplishes. If you want straight survivability items, you should obviously buy straight survivability items. Janggo gives one of the most well-rounded mix of self- and team- teamfighting stats for it's cost. Most of the ranged heroes that you see people suggest it on are semicarries that want that kind of teamfighting power at that stage of the game. So you wouldn't recommend it if you're playing a hardcarry style then I presume. What about on Viper, QoP or someone like Razor? Vanguard still viable? Are drums (if you play them like the team's carry)?
Vanguard on QoP is a nono since your blink should grant you enough survivability. I still get vanguard on Viper and Razor because that was my standard in DOTA1 but it's been years and I'm not positive it's still "viable".
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Well the only ranged hero I'd get Vanguard after the nerf is Lanaya, as it stops melee creeps from procing refraction (it ignores instances of 5 or less damage), rest is veeery situational...
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On April 20 2012 01:39 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 00:54 Font wrote:On April 19 2012 22:50 Dattish wrote:
Can't wait to properly learn Mangix. Was one of the few heroes that I always had to repick. what the hell is a mangix rofl this is dota not w.e. MOBA wannabe game ur talking about(LoL)  the fun fact is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314738#1He have 6 years experience of dota and dont know panda's DotA name.
it's even funnier if you've ever played against him 'cause he's god awful.
probably less funny if you're on the same team as him though
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
I detest ranged Vanguard nowadays. The bonuses you get for finishing Vanguard are minimal: 1 hp/sec regeneration and an additional -10 70% (average 7 damage block) for 250 gold, the cost of a Stout Shield. The Stout Shield barely makes sense, and for all ranged heroes you'd get Vanguard on anyway you can also viably get Hood. Better to keep the Vitality Booster for a late game heart and turn the Ring of Health into a Hood/Pipe.
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As i said before, besides very few cases i can not comprehend upgrading to a vanguard for ranged heroes.
Just a vit booster is more or less half the price and the exact same HP.
Edit: Damnit! Ninjad by flamewheel! :D
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Oh wow. You know, all this time I had interpreted vanguard's block mechanism as 'blocks x damage coming from melee, x damage coming from ranged'. No idea it actually depended on whether YOUR hero was melee or ranged haha.
Oh well, learn something new every day ~
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Just got into the beta I'm mostly a lolplayer at the moment. Don't know anything about dota or dota2 just gonna try it and hope I dont get raged at too mutch.
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On April 20 2012 01:39 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 01:32 Scaramanga wrote:On April 20 2012 00:54 Font wrote:On April 19 2012 22:50 Dattish wrote:
Can't wait to properly learn Mangix. Was one of the few heroes that I always had to repick. what the hell is a mangix rofl this is dota not w.e. MOBA wannabe game ur talking about(LoL) I don't think he'll ever come back to tl after this fuckup Isn't he the guy that already got a ban for some comments in dota sections?
Font was the catalyst for some of the most enthralling discussions in this thread. I think they're documented, somewhere.
+ Show Spoiler +Font is the first guy to speak, then it alternates between Font and TL posters.
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smtime it make me wonder how could a guy stay hating that constantly? ~_~.......
question: what should be the core item on DK?
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On April 20 2012 02:50 NB wrote:
smtime it make me wonder how could a guy stay hating that constantly? ~_~.......
question: what should be the core item on DK?
bkb
must destroy team fights.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2012 02:50 NB wrote:
smtime it make me wonder how could a guy stay hating that constantly? ~_~.......
question: what should be the core item on DK?
Depends a lot on your team. What position you're playing, how hard of a carry you need to be, etc.
Treads and Bottle are pretty standard (Soul Ring is also an option instead of Bottle if you're sidelane). Janggo if you want midgame teamfight power. Pipe or BKB as first major core item, followed by Mjollnir or AC. Get a Vit Booster somewhere that you'll turn into Vanguard or Heart.
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On April 20 2012 00:54 Font wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 22:50 Dattish wrote:
Can't wait to properly learn Mangix. Was one of the few heroes that I always had to repick. what the hell is a mangix rofl this is dota not w.e. MOBA wannabe game ur talking about(LoL)
So much fail that my eyes bleed
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On April 20 2012 02:39 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 01:39 Numy wrote:On April 20 2012 01:32 Scaramanga wrote:On April 20 2012 00:54 Font wrote:On April 19 2012 22:50 Dattish wrote:
Can't wait to properly learn Mangix. Was one of the few heroes that I always had to repick. what the hell is a mangix rofl this is dota not w.e. MOBA wannabe game ur talking about(LoL) I don't think he'll ever come back to tl after this fuckup Isn't he the guy that already got a ban for some comments in dota sections? Font was the catalyst for some of the most enthralling discussions in this thread. I think they're documented, somewhere. + Show Spoiler +
Meh, still not as good as the Testie Incontroll legendary movie
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 20 2012 02:50 NB wrote:
smtime it make me wonder how could a guy stay hating that constantly? ~_~.......
question: what should be the core item on DK?
Most of Chinese scene DK go for Treads, Pipe, BKB, AC, and just go god-mode pushing with team.
Helm of Dominator/Satanic and Bottle/Soul Ring depending on situation and phase of the game.
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i just rush straight into rad and its pretty damn good as well. like i cant really find a bad item to get on DK really. Given the amount of farm you get from early soul ring into stacked accient camp. I do notice that pipe+BKB is core but i mean whats the best DPS item? also whats the best orb?
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On April 20 2012 02:39 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 01:39 Numy wrote:On April 20 2012 01:32 Scaramanga wrote:On April 20 2012 00:54 Font wrote:On April 19 2012 22:50 Dattish wrote:
Can't wait to properly learn Mangix. Was one of the few heroes that I always had to repick. what the hell is a mangix rofl this is dota not w.e. MOBA wannabe game ur talking about(LoL) I don't think he'll ever come back to tl after this fuckup Isn't he the guy that already got a ban for some comments in dota sections? Font was the catalyst for some of the most enthralling discussions in this thread. I think they're documented, somewhere. + Show Spoiler +
I got a good laugh out of it.
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Either bottle if mid or soul ring if side is pretty core, since it greatly increases your early game farm/push/fight potential
Then I feel like the item choices really depend on whether you're playing 1st position or 2nd position DK and how much your team emphasizes pushing
your first mid tier item choice (around 2k) is likely one or two of
HoD or Jango or Hood or Sange
followed by either another item from that tier, finishing Pipe or Heaven's halbred, or going BKB
In terms of latergame large items the typical choices tend to be
Santanic (if u went HoD) Mjnonir, or Assault Curiass
of those Mjnonir offers the most DPS while the other two gives varying amounts of utility and survivability
It really depends a lot on the other team, like a midgame pipe would be a must against aoe lineups wheras you'd get bkb to ward off heavy single-target disable lineups
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... did something happen to the Dota 2/Steam servers, update or otherwise, or is it just me?
nevermind Demon's game is fine, well fuck
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think so, this is like the 3rd time this week, its getting really fucking annoying
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EPT
