EPTThe ideal is obviously for 2-1-2 and 3-1-1 to be in some sort of equilibrium, but in practice, this is hard to accomplish perfectly.
General Discussion - Page 4152
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The ideal is obviously for 2-1-2 and 3-1-1 to be in some sort of equilibrium, but in practice, this is hard to accomplish perfectly. | ||
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devilesk
United States140 Posts
On October 18 2013 22:01 BurningSera wrote: Not a single practical buff on the support heroes (except that ward/sentry adjustment), and you know how pub support works, you want to kill heroes and your team derping on killing creeps etc. Dota2 MM is expected to have incompetent players one game or another. Not saying that it is a bad patch for support heroes etc (people will adjust anyway) but i dont have the energy to deal with more disheartening games, i'd rather go PA/BS/Slark every game and say sorry to team if we lost rofl. edit: that offlaner buff (exp sharing+range+creep equilibrium) really upset me  and maybe 1 buff is practical, that lion buff is delicious Passive gold buff is huge for supports. And how are the buffs to AA, CM, Dazzle, Disruptor, ES, Jakiro, Lich, Lina, Pugna, Rubick, Venge, Veno, WD not practical? Some of those heroes were already strong to begin with and still got small buffs making them even better. The others I think are on the verge of being viable and these buffs just make them even more attractive. EDIT: Also, no more pooling means more for supports. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
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Ryrmidon
Canada371 Posts
On October 18 2013 18:43 KezseN wrote: The amount of elitists is high in this place  The only circlejerk bigger than the elitists is the anti elitist circlejerk | ||
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devilesk
United States140 Posts
On October 18 2013 15:25 Firebolt145 wrote: Tranqs are kinda meh on carries now since they break every time you get a last hit. Does the patch actually change how tranquil boots get broken in the first place or are the notes just referring to how they restore themselves from broken to active? Based on my reading of the patch notes it would seem to be the latter, but someone with the test client could actually confirm how it works. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On October 18 2013 22:27 devilesk wrote: Passive gold buff is huge for supports. And how are the buffs to AA, CM, Dazzle, Disruptor, ES, Jakiro, Lich, Lina, Pugna, Rubick, Venge, Veno, WD not practical? Some of those heroes were already strong to begin with and still got small buffs making them even better. The others I think are on the verge of being viable and these buffs just make them even more attractive. EDIT: Also, no more pooling means more for supports. I feel like being rude here but the key word is 'practical'. I'll make an example, How far away is a support rubick from Agha. you go dagger when the game is nice and then agha at around 20-30+mins (realistically at 30+mins, if you could do that you would have won the game regardless so this only makes a difference at the very top levels of pro games which has nothing to do with my pub game), or you are screwed and somehow you made a 50mins naked agha Rubick. 'buff' on a support that has nothing to do with his whole point being strong/useful in early/early-mid game. VS's imba swap (obviously forcestaff is still better) allows a dagger timing on the hero but when you are ahead with that hero, you can make dagon or go for carry build or just make a 15mins Pipe. etc etc. And jakiro's buff is purely comedic lol. well ok if you mean Mid jakiro then i am going to shut up. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
Saying there were absolutelly no buffs to supports is absurd and plainly biased. Specially considering that we don't know how the game will change with the patch and that will matter more than any kind of small buff or nerf. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On October 18 2013 23:07 SKC wrote: 100 range on fissure is practical, Lich and his lane getting XP from sacrifice is practical, Lion with a 2.5s Hex at level 1 is practical, 6s CD fireblast is practical, 10 Serpent Wards is practical, etc. Saying there were absolutelly no buffs to supports is absurd and plainly biased. Specially considering that we don't know how the game will change with the patch and that will matter more than any kind of small buff or nerf. ES will be strong in 2-1-2 regardless that, lich has a semi-midas during the laning phase which can be quite significant for dual laning (which we dont know about that yet) but a lich is a lich (ok 0.5 practical here, i'll give you this actually lol) and i did mention lion but he will probably still not get picked up more (hard hero to play etc), same to rhasta (really, 2 extra wards? give them +10 damage each ward instead then ill say it is a practical buff). and 6s CD is for Unrefined Fireblast, i'd say is a good adjustment. I said 'practical', as in something that 'oh yes now i am going to play the hero now!!!', like in the case of PA/BS/Slark/riki/luna etc etc. all in all, at least the patch will raise us some salary but screwing us with that exp sharing which is huge because support heroes are mostly early game heroes and that has nothing to do what i said anyway. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Gevna
France2332 Posts
Or I'm just biased as hell because Rubick is probably my favourite hero. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
Well maybe for disruptor I'd love to try out his agha but that would mean that i am not going to play a #3.5 disruptor. | ||
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Testuser
6469 Posts
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devilesk
United States140 Posts
On October 18 2013 23:01 BurningSera wrote: I feel like being rude here but the key word is 'practical'. I'll make an example, How far away is a support rubick from Agha. you go dagger when the game is nice and then agha at around 20-30+mins (realistically at 30+mins, if you could do that you would have won the game regardless so this only makes a difference at the very top levels of pro games which has nothing to do with my pub game), or you are screwed and somehow you made a 50mins naked agha Rubick. 'buff' on a support that has nothing to do with his whole point being strong/useful in early/early-mid game. VS's imba swap (obviously forcestaff is still better) allows a dagger timing on the hero but when you are ahead with that hero, you can make dagon or go for carry build or just make a 15mins Pipe. etc etc. And jakiro's buff is purely comedic lol. well ok if you mean Mid jakiro then i am going to shut up. Rubick is already a strong support. I don't see why he would need a change or rework that would affect his early-mid game. The biggest "wow I need to play this hero now" changes to heroes like Rubick and Disruptor are changes that are encouraging them to be played more as mid heroes than supports. I think the lack of what you consider "practical" changes is simply because support heroes don't really need major changes. They need to be picked up anyway if you want a decent lineup, and the ones that got buffed just got minor buffs so they could be more viable in relation to all the other support heroes. Heroes that got buffed that need more farm naturally need buffs that make you go "wow" because they need something powerful like that to make them relevant again. I just think that wasn't the case with a lot of the supports this time. I don't expect IceFrog to introduce crazy changes (other than aghs changes) to heroes that don't desperately need them, and I don't think he should. It's a balance patch and I don't think its purpose is to make it so every hero you see makes you go "wow I need to play that hero now." And I think it's a matter of opinion that you aren't impressed by the support changes, but a lot of the support changes are pretty interesting to me and will make me want to play them more. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Free 25GPM for every hero on the map is interesting but keep in mind its unreliable gold. Incidentally, its exactly 150g every 6 mins so one could consider it free wards although the actual burden of properly warding and dewarding and purchasing dust etc is far far greater than that. | ||
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Painmaker
Uruguay230 Posts
 One thing I learned is that it doesnt matter if you have no idea what you're doing, as long as you don't die too much you can figure things out... people tend to feed like crazy in low level game, if you can just not do that, you'll be fine. | ||
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Ryrmidon
Canada371 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On October 19 2013 00:30 Painmaker wrote: So, I started playing this game 3 days ago and I'm having so much fun. I mean, still have no idea what I'm doing, the shopping can be a mess sometimes, last hitting is a pain in the ass (I barely break 100 LH in a 25 minute game, If im lucky). Despite all this the game looks breatiful and you can see the depth of it. One thing I've noticed so far is that most games are a landslide... (I'm talking about stuff like people on one team being lvl 25 and people on the enemy team being lvl 13... or a team winning by 40+ kills) It can be frustrating when you're on the losing side but man is it sweet when you are on the winning side (Insta killing people with lich or sand king is awesome). Can't really complain, I'm winning more than losing so... yeah One thing I learned is that it doesnt matter if you have no idea what you're doing, as long as you don't die too much you can figure things out... people tend to feed like crazy in low level game, if you can just not do that, you'll be fine. 100 cs in 25 minutes is pretty good if you're 3 days old. I don't think kollin can do that. | ||
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Painmaker
Uruguay230 Posts
I'm pretty bad at cs'ing | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Realisitically 100 cs in 25 mins probably wins low-tier games handily though. | ||
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