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On October 11 2013 02:05 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:31 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2013 00:18 Faruko wrote:
i can see AA working on a offensive 3 lane, the problem ? there are far better choices for that, he is a great 2-1-2 Hero to be fair (even thought the lack of stun/silence really hurts him) but still there are better choices out there, now more that Cold Feet mana cost its so damn high a single Cold Feet at level 1 cost him half his mana
It's too great of a risk to put him in an offensive trilane. If the enemy's defensive trilane avoids getting killed, you become a non-factor because AA with a level disadvantage can basically only farm lanes for levels or leech XP from someone else while they farm. 2-1-2 entails less risk because when things go bad you're at least not splitting one lane of XP 3 ways. There's just not a whole lot of incentive for 2-1-2 except in very specific drafts nowadays. EDIT: Though ES+AA is still absolutely fantastic duo off-lane for pub 2-1-2. On October 11 2013 00:20 -Celestial- wrote:
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable. lol I'm sorry to single you out here, but I hate that phrase "there are just better X out there". It's completely uninformative and is just a cop-out when you don't know why the hero isn't played, because it's almost never the case where one hero is just blanket better than the other one. It's just a matter of the game favoring certain aspects of the game that are advantageous to certain heroes. When someone asks why X isn't played they want to know what those factors are, and you aren't saying shit when you say "there are just better X out there". I dont get how AA and ES are a fantastic dual offlane? I mean yeah if u get a block with fissure u get the fulll cold feet. But if you get a block with fissure ur preaty much guaranteed a kill if there is any followup. Like CK AA is much more scary as a dual lane just to name one
It's more scary if you're playing agaisnt anything that's not a trilane, ES is better at disengaging and doesn't need farm.
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I think the plan is to force them to keep supports in lane and to let AA get a modicum of farm in relative safety. Still seems dubious vs a trilane which I suppose is why it fell off.
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United States47024 Posts
CK+AA has to commit for kills, is weak defensively, and if it's all-in fails, there's not much of a backup plan.
AA+ES abuses AA's inherent strong harassment potential with 600 range and a strong harassment skill (which is not negated by bottle-crowing like it is mid), while also having similar kill potential (you don't need a full block to ensure Cold Feet connects at low levels, you only need the stun), and Shaker's defensive ability.
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What causes a game to count or not?
The reason I'm asking is that I'm pretty new to the game and yesterday we won a 3 on 4 (Vengeful Spirit, Lion, Windrunner vs Sand King, Drow Ranger, Skeleton King, Dragon Knight). I went 21-2-15 as the VS, which is outstanding compared to my regular stats and I was a bit miffed to see that it didn't count...
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:32 psychopat wrote:
What causes a game to count or not?
The reason I'm asking is that I'm pretty new to the game and yesterday we won a 3 on 4 (Vengeful Spirit, Lion, Windrunner vs Sand King, Drow Ranger, Skeleton King, Dragon Knight). I went 21-2-15 as the VS, which is outstanding compared to my regular stats and I was a bit miffed to see that it didn't count...
If the first leave/abandon happens before the 5 minute mark and there are still no hero/tower kills, then a game doesn't count, regardless of what happens after that.
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I don't know why AA isn't picked against Alch more.
It's pretty redonk
Also LoA too now that I think about it
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I don't know why AA isn't picked much in general, his ulti is fucking amazing, especially in pubs where people love to get lifesteal.
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On October 11 2013 03:07 hooahah wrote:
I don't know why AA isn't picked much in general, his ulti is fucking amazing, especially in pubs where people love to get lifesteal.
His gameplay / overall style isn't really too well suited against Alchy, though.
Except in pub dual lanes.
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AA squishy and needs good setup for his ulti/cold feet to land.
Imo ET mid with a defensive tri involving AA would be fun to draft around.
One thing I would like to test is, cold feet + grave chill enough to nearly guarantee a stun (at early levels). I could see a gyro+AA+visage murdering the lane at lvl 2 (cold feet + chilling touch, grave chill, homing rocket to force the engage) I mean chilling touch on two of the longest range supports....it could be fun.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:44 Hoban wrote:
One thing I would like to test is, cold feet + grave chill enough to nearly guarantee a stun (at early levels).
In order for Cold Feet to be guaranteed, the target must have an average MS over those 4 seconds of 185 or less (slightly higher threshold if they have to turn around). On a 300 MS enemy that's a 40% slow for 4 seconds. Grave Chill is a 32% slow for 3 seconds. It doesn't guarantee it, but it's close if they have to turn around and have slow reaction time.
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On October 11 2013 03:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 03:44 Hoban wrote:
One thing I would like to test is, cold feet + grave chill enough to nearly guarantee a stun (at early levels). In order for Cold Feet to be guaranteed, the target must have an average MS over those 4 seconds of 185 or less (slightly higher threshold if they have to turn around). On a 300 MS enemy that's a 40% slow for 4 seconds. Grave Chill is a 32% slow for 3 seconds. It doesn't guarantee it, but it's close if they have to turn around and have slow reaction time.
Probably could get some body blocking in there easily in a lot of situations - still, thats a trilane with 0 hard stuns between supports and could be potentially disputed depending on carries.
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United States47024 Posts
Body blocking with 3 ranged in an offensive trilane when your kill target is going to retreat under tower?
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On October 11 2013 02:36 RockIronrod wrote:
I don't know why AA isn't picked against Alch more.
It's pretty redonk
Also LoA too now that I think about it
Not totally positive about Abaddons ult (i think it might remove the ult with its debuff removal meaning for the AA ult to be effective you would have to hit him with it during his ult active time). but I'm pretty sure he's actually the worst healer for AA to go against, Aphotic shield can clear off pretty much anything.
AA also suffers from the syndrome of a lot of other under-utilized heroes, he does nothing vs magic immune or BKB heroes (in fact, chilling touch is actually a debuff vs them). All of Kaldr's spells are actually really good, they just have that downside. It's something Venomancer deals with too but at least Venomancer's spells can't be debuffed (except by slark) and his toxic sting slow stills goes through bkb. If lifestealer is picked then AA is almost unpickable. He's also pretty bad at stopping pushes. He's ok at defending split pushes, but his ultimate is usually better saved for a teamfight than blasting the furion on the other side of the map.
I remember in TI1 where he was picked like every damn game but he was usually paired with void and ice blast + chronosphere was (and is) a really strong combination.
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AA vs Abaddon ulti war is actually a Tie (rofl). Abaddon can't gain life but he can't lose it either so he just sits there at his current HP total regardless of any damage/heal that may occur. No his ult doesn't purge the AA ult debuff.
Note: I don't know how the shatter trigger interacts with his ult though.
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On October 11 2013 03:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 03:44 Hoban wrote:
One thing I would like to test is, cold feet + grave chill enough to nearly guarantee a stun (at early levels). In order for Cold Feet to be guaranteed, the target must have an average MS over those 4 seconds of 185 or less (slightly higher threshold if they have to turn around). On a 300 MS enemy that's a 40% slow for 4 seconds. Grave Chill is a 32% slow for 3 seconds. It doesn't guarantee it, but it's close if they have to turn around and have slow reaction time.
Wouldn't Gale ensure most of the time?
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United States47024 Posts
AA ult is currently bugged to be unpurge-able. This is the wrong interaction with Diffusal Purge, Dark Pact, etc. but is possibly the intended interaction for Aphotic Shield and Borrowed Time. The DotA 1 interaction for Aphotic Shield and Borrowed Time is weird and stupid--the AA ult debuff is removed by Aphotic Shield BUT is triggered to re-apply itself unless you take damage within the next 0.5s (Purge and Dark Pact are coded to fully remove it, only Aphotic Shield, Borrowed Time, and Manta Style have this strange interaction).
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Guys what about the compendium predictions? From what I've seen it doesn't show how many points you have on specific page and I guess there were no prizes for peoples predictions?
Everyone seem to forgot about it TT
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That is true about 0-stun trilane. Hell maybe a luna with that 0.6 second lucent beam could be enough. Though chilling touch + luna aura with visage I don't think you need a stun, if anyone approaches the lane they will get hit 2-3 times then soul assumption. It's all theory craft though.
You can actually use cold feed to force a disengage from another member of the trilane, i.e. you grave chill and throw a few autos and cold feet a different support to force them back. I think the strength of a visage+AA is that, they cannot trade autos with you no matter who they are. 3 auto-attacks with chilling touch and a soul assumption is going to wreck anyone. If they are forcing the issue, cold feet can almost force a disengage.
I haven't played enough AA trilanes to know how this would work in practice but now I want to try it.
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On October 11 2013 04:17 TheYango wrote:
Body blocking with 3 ranged in an offensive trilane when your kill target is going to retreat under tower?
Meh, was assuming tri vs single, as I'm not sure its that great of a trilane with an AA in tri vs tri.
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On October 11 2013 04:31 739 wrote:
Guys what about the compendium predictions? From what I've seen it doesn't show how many points you have on specific page and I guess there were no prizes for peoples predictions?
Everyone seem to forgot about it TT
Did valve actually say they were giving prizes for predictions? Prizes were explicitly stated and delivered for the fantasy league for instance.
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EPT
