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On October 10 2013 10:05 Shock710 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 05:29 TheEmulator wrote:On October 10 2013 05:16 Kuroeeah wrote:Proud to announce the Idra announcer pack. Here's just a taste for what's to come. + Show Spoiler +Killing an enemy player
•"Fucking imbecile"
•"He doesn't seem very good"
•"He's just bad"
•"He's awful"
•"Retard"
When the player dies
•"Disgusting hero"
•"Fucker"
•"This game is fucking disgusting"
•"What a piece of shit"
•"Fuck Protoss"
•"Fucking idiot, he just got lucky"
I loled at the "Fuck Protoss". I could totally see him still saying that in a game of Dota 2 which has nothing to do with SC2. The hate is htat deep that they get blamed for everything. In Idra's life he must use that I bet. Like if someone cuts him off while driving, "Fucker must play Protoss", or if someone in his family gets sick, "god damn Protoss". lol fuck protoss could also be a special thing where it happens if u die to ta
Die to Riki. "Fucking DTs everywhere"
On October 10 2013 04:03 Acritter wrote:
And, of course, every time a teammate dies:
he's feeding, he's like trying to throw or something, I dunno what's his problem
What I'd really love is a White-ra announcer pack.
"I do not know this game well, but I will try to make good announcement for you."
"It look like Radiant team is losing middle expansion."
"Dire has lost top production facility. They could not defense it."
And so on.
10/10 Would buy.
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable.
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I seem to remember dendi playing a game or 2 of AA mid when he got the agha buff, but that's about it.
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On October 11 2013 00:22 Sbrubbles wrote:
I seem to remember dendi playing a game or 2 of AA mid when he got the agha buff, but that's about it.
Yup, i remember that too, i was thinking that even dendi+puppey's draft can hardly pull the hero off (and the fact that chinese teams pretty abandoned the hero for ages), I don't think we will see AA any soon unless significant buff/metagame happens.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2013 00:18 Faruko wrote:
i can see AA working on a offensive 3 lane, the problem ? there are far better choices for that, he is a great 2-1-2 Hero to be fair (even thought the lack of stun/silence really hurts him) but still there are better choices out there, now more that Cold Feet mana cost its so damn high a single Cold Feet at level 1 cost him half his mana
It's too great of a risk to put him in an offensive trilane. If the enemy's defensive trilane avoids getting killed, you become a non-factor because AA with a level disadvantage can basically only farm lanes for levels or leech XP from someone else while they farm.
2-1-2 entails less risk because when things go bad you're at least not splitting one lane of XP 3 ways. There's just not a whole lot of incentive for 2-1-2 except in very specific drafts nowadays.
EDIT: Though ES+AA is still absolutely fantastic duo off-lane for pub 2-1-2.
On October 11 2013 00:20 -Celestial- wrote:
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable.
lol
I'm sorry to single you out here, but I hate that phrase "there are just better X out there".
It's completely uninformative and is just a cop-out when you don't know why the hero isn't played, because it's almost never the case where one hero is just blanket better than the other one. It's just a matter of the game favoring certain aspects of the game that are advantageous to certain heroes. When someone asks why X isn't played they want to know what those factors are, and you aren't saying shit when you say "there are just better X out there".
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AA has one purpose... He has to be picked when you allready have Zeus  .
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I know im not inventing the wheel here but...
Im pretty sure when we are saying "there are just better X out there" we mean it for the current meta game, if the meta was completely different even, for example, Dark seer could potentially be a bad choice (even thought i cant think of a single situation when a Dark Seer its a bad hero lol)
A lot of heroes are for X meta and the other heroes are Y, Z, etc...
Every Hero its great on their own, but the Synergy of the team and the meta of the game dictates how the game its going to play more or less
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United States47024 Posts
Yes, but again, it's still totally uninformative because it doesn't say shit about what in the current game influences why the hero isn't good.
"Why is X bad?"
"Because it's not good right now."
...
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On October 11 2013 00:47 TheYango wrote:
Yes, but again, it's still totally uninformative because it doesn't say shit about what in the current game influences why the hero isn't good.
"Why is X bad?"
"Because it's not good right now."
...
To be fair, I feel like there are a handful of heroes that aren't picked because captains have forgotten about them / not thought or practiced extensively on how to fit them into the current game.
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In pub, AA+ CK/Sven carries with disable/semi-diasble or with long range slow/disable supports like ES/Veno work really well, you will definitely feel dirty playing those combos.
I really feel like that AA shouldn't be completely irrelevant in current meta, yes the hero is average at mid and he needs levels and moderate levels of farm to function well but isn't that fit right into the 'greedy support playstyle' that is going on in the top tier teams nowadays. Compare to the high-skill tier support like Disruptor, AA should be easier to fit into the usual line up of current metagame but still it is definitely not easy to run AA without the right line up.
Think about the combo of TC+AA, jesus christ. I want to see EGM/akke runs AA.
plus don't forget his buffed/borderline-broken third spell, it can eat early/early-mid game phase alive, and somehow 0-4-4 TC can work so well with that too.....
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What do you guys think of aura stacking? With TC/ET in the pool, I wonder if it's possible for us to see a slight resurgence to this strategy if the draft goes well.
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On October 11 2013 00:47 TheYango wrote:
Yes, but again, it's still totally uninformative because it doesn't say shit about what in the current game influences why the hero isn't good.
"Why is X bad?"
"Because it's not good right now."
...
Well i did say why AA isnt picked, he needs level, has mana problems, his skills are somewhat unreliable, doesnt has a stun/silence spamable skill...
Chilling touch its a great pushing/trilane skill but again... its high mana cost (110 was ?) compared to his low mana pool, means it could be useful but at mid-late game and its cooldown its just too much
Even though i think that chilling touch has some great potential
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On October 11 2013 00:31 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:20 -Celestial- wrote:
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable. lol I'm sorry to single you out here, but I hate that phrase "there are just better X out there". It's completely uninformative and is just a cop-out when you don't know why the hero isn't played, because it's almost never the case where one hero is just blanket better than the other one. It's just a matter of the game favoring certain aspects of the game that are advantageous to certain heroes. When someone asks why X isn't played they want to know what those factors are, and you aren't saying shit when you say "there are just better X out there".
Yet its still true. If you're going to bash me like I'm a damn idiot I'd point out its hard to pick out a specific downside when he's just so...well, mediocre. I mean to take a random aspect of him as an example look at the skillset. You've got a weird stun with a modest DoT that only works if the opponent stays standing right on it, so ideally it requires another disable on top of it to hold them in place for it to kick in. You've got an AoE slow/magic amplification thats ok but not exactly something to write home about and you can just walk out of, though it does have the benefit of a short cooldown (though given the mana cost its hardly spammable). And you've got a modest ally buff for a very limited number of attacks on a fairly large cooldown. And all of these pretty much cost a ton of mana for what they do and/or how unreliable they are.
The only thing he's really got going for him is the ult which is great...if it hits. I mean compare it with something like Ogre Magi. An actual straightforward stun even if its an awkward animation, a slow that whilst single target does DoT rather than magic damage amplification and a way better ally buff even if it is only single target that costs less mana and on a shorter cooldown.
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Hey, in my opinion Ogre Magi bloodlust its the best buff skill in the game...
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On October 11 2013 01:16 Faruko wrote:
Hey, in my opinion Ogre Magi bloodlust its the best buff skill in the game...
...that's pretty much along the lines of the point I was making. >_>
Think you might have misread something.
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I hate AA a lot but last time I flamed the hero yango pointed out (and it's true) that his stun actually scales really really well in terms of duration compared to more reliable ones.
Its still a bad ability and a bad hero but there is some hint of upside :3
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On October 11 2013 01:18 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 01:16 Faruko wrote:
Hey, in my opinion Ogre Magi bloodlust its the best buff skill in the game... ...that's pretty much along the lines of the point I was making. >_> Think you might have misread something.
Ohh sorry i thought you were saying that even something like Bloodlust its better than chilling touch.
Sorry my bad :D
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Netherlands45349 Posts
When you tell someone that X hero is stronger then Y hero right now but don't say anything about why, or compare it with other heroes then all you do is confuse the person who wants to know why Y hero is not being played. It doesn't tell him anything or help him to understand anything about why that is the case.
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AA would be pretty good mid if Bottlecrowing weren't so prevalent I think. He beats a lot of heroes because of chilling touch and cold feet. He would be somewhat comparable to invoker. Not really good at anything but dealing damage to the enemy laner and occasionally contributing to a gank. He sits there, gains levels and slowly acquires items to become more useful
As a support I really don't think he is very good except in pretty niche situations. In a trilane with 2 other ranged heroes vs another trilane, chilling touch could easily be what wins the trilane. It would be good for shutting down a melee trilane farmer like void or pl. His ult also works pretty well with a ganking lineup, especially with a carry like storm or ck who can disable and chase a hero for a long time.
Despite this he is generally bad as a support since he is fairly level dependent and 2 of his abilities are straight up unreliable (cold feet and ice blast).
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On October 11 2013 01:13 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:31 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2013 00:20 -Celestial- wrote:
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable. lol I'm sorry to single you out here, but I hate that phrase "there are just better X out there". It's completely uninformative and is just a cop-out when you don't know why the hero isn't played, because it's almost never the case where one hero is just blanket better than the other one. It's just a matter of the game favoring certain aspects of the game that are advantageous to certain heroes. When someone asks why X isn't played they want to know what those factors are, and you aren't saying shit when you say "there are just better X out there". Yet its still true. If you're going to bash me like I'm a damn idiot I'd point out its hard to pick out a specific downside when he's just so...well, mediocre. I mean to take a random aspect of him as an example look at the skillset. You've got a weird stun with a modest DoT that only works if the opponent stays standing right on it, so ideally it requires another disable on top of it to hold them in place for it to kick in. You've got an AoE slow/magic amplification thats ok but not exactly something to write home about and you can just walk out of, though it does have the benefit of a short cooldown (though given the mana cost its hardly spammable). And you've got a modest ally buff for a very limited number of attacks on a fairly large cooldown. And all of these pretty much cost a ton of mana for what they do and/or how unreliable they are. The only thing he's really got going for him is the ult which is great...if it hits. I mean compare it with something like Ogre Magi. An actual straightforward stun even if its an awkward animation, a slow that whilst single target does DoT rather than magic damage amplification and a way better ally buff even if it is only single target that costs less mana and on a shorter cooldown.
See, the thing is comparisons like that are inherently awkward because... they don't work.
If you'd like to compare single aspects, you need to look at them individually and with the right comparison. AAs stun is much closer to e.g. Lina, Lesh or Kunkka than it is to Ogre. What makes AA harder to pick up than other heroes that have similar "hard to hit" stuns is that he needs his teammates to help him out. If you're in a situation where AA (even though he technically looks like a follow-up) can use Cold Feet first with his ally holding the enemy in place (think Fissure/Telekinesis/Disruption) you suddenly have an incredibly strong stun with lots of damage.
That's not something you pick because it's good, that's something you straight up need to practice. Not to mention that using your "follow up stun" to lead off is a lot harder to pull off in lane.
Chilling Touch is an INSANE spell - if your entire team likes to right click, including supports while Bloodlust does more for single/dualcores. Again something you can't just pick, it needs to fit into a very specific draft.
As for AA's ultimate, that's where you also need a certain draft from the enemy team to make it truly shine. "Preventing all healing" in itself is complete nuts given that your team can stick to a teamfight all the way throughout the game. Good luck with your Necrolyte or Satanic. Enjoy having support items disabled.
IF all those things come together, grabbing an AA is just beyond comparison strong. If they don't but only some of them align you still have a strong hero. The real question is if you value the hero being strong in certain situations over the ability of your players not being 100% practiced on him or not.
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On October 11 2013 00:31 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:18 Faruko wrote:
i can see AA working on a offensive 3 lane, the problem ? there are far better choices for that, he is a great 2-1-2 Hero to be fair (even thought the lack of stun/silence really hurts him) but still there are better choices out there, now more that Cold Feet mana cost its so damn high a single Cold Feet at level 1 cost him half his mana
It's too great of a risk to put him in an offensive trilane. If the enemy's defensive trilane avoids getting killed, you become a non-factor because AA with a level disadvantage can basically only farm lanes for levels or leech XP from someone else while they farm. 2-1-2 entails less risk because when things go bad you're at least not splitting one lane of XP 3 ways. There's just not a whole lot of incentive for 2-1-2 except in very specific drafts nowadays. EDIT: Though ES+AA is still absolutely fantastic duo off-lane for pub 2-1-2. Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 00:20 -Celestial- wrote:
As for AA...he's ok. I think the issue is there are just better supports out there. The only thing thats really neat is the ult and that is pretty unreliable. lol I'm sorry to single you out here, but I hate that phrase "there are just better X out there". It's completely uninformative and is just a cop-out when you don't know why the hero isn't played, because it's almost never the case where one hero is just blanket better than the other one. It's just a matter of the game favoring certain aspects of the game that are advantageous to certain heroes. When someone asks why X isn't played they want to know what those factors are, and you aren't saying shit when you say "there are just better X out there".
I dont get how AA and ES are a fantastic dual offlane? I mean yeah if u get a block with fissure u get the fulll cold feet. But if you get a block with fissure ur preaty much guaranteed a kill if there is any followup.
Like CK AA is much more scary as a dual lane just to name one
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EPT
