EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3708
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
It's actually gotten me more sensitive to spectre lineups and haunt usage, and why crazy initiators/gankers like batrider or beastmaster or puck should always be picked in tandem with him. First off, every single successful pickoff will delay the mortally-threatening 5-man push another minute or so, giving more time for the spec to get big. 2nd, being able to force fights decisively with the drop of a hat, is enormously beneficial for haunt. It insures it's never wasted, and almost always results in additional kills on top of the lasso'd/roared target, as you go to town on people trying to rescue the target. The moment you run into an aggressive lineup that's not CD-dependent at all though, you're in a lot of trouble (especially ones with multiple BKB heroes, who completely shrug off your midgame damage output). They can continuously force fights with ganks or pushes, and your team can't do anything but feed 4v5 or lose all your outer towers. I'm going to temper that with the fact that conventional spectres have lots of trouble dealing with that anyways. No matter how you build him, Spec just isn't tanky or survivable enough nowadays when you pit him against dual cores like naix/weaver, etc. in the early and mid game. In competitive, you've got the 4p1 draft to balance things out, stacking huge amounts of control. In pubs though, it makes sense to me how some people would want to remove him from the battlefield altogether. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:02 r.Evo wrote: you max heal > stats with 1 point in w if you want to be tankier. But maxing heal doesnt save the spell problem, only the damage over time problem (i.e. from auto attacks), which a maxed out q would do (admittedly not as well) but has additional benefits (rosh, teamfight disruptor). Besides, arent items a better way to tank up than spending points on stats anyway? Im not saying that this idea is necessarily better, but rather that it might be worth at least thinking about as an option. | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote: How does shifting points from w or e to q change that? Nukes (bar shit like Skywraths's arcane bolt or ultimate) fall off hard the later the game goes. Healing spirits may not increase your hp pool but unless you get consecutively shot down by a bunch of high burst spells then the rapid regen will allow you to shrug off most of what you get in a team fight. Conversely, autoattackers start getting the big physical damage items around the same time that nukes begin falling off so that is when you want to start getting untouchable to be the most effective. It may seem cool but grinding down the attack speed of something like a void with maybe treads and part of a bf isn't nearly as effective as having the burst heal (that also helps your team). | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:05 Two_DoWn wrote: Besides, arent items a better way to tank up than spending points on stats anyway? A) Why not both? B) not really, since items that aren't boots/wards/smoke etc don't necessarily appear on ench until after she could put 2 or 3 points into stats. I've seen a lot of Enchant-Heal-Stats-Stats-Stats-Ult builds. While it is true that that is only 6 strength that you could get from an urn, it is also true that that 6 strength makes a pretty big difference and that heal over time is generally enough to stave off any kind of right-click based early game damage. I mean, stats also give you miniscule amounts of armor and mana and damage etc. Mana at least can be an issue for ench early. | ||
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Nocticate
Vatican City State2902 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
what's the point of enchant? to gank and to push, what does her passive do to help that? nothing. you trade an aoe heal that can sustain a push or a target-able slow and creeps that gank/push/do lots of dmg early, for a passive that the other team can avoid entirely at this stage of the game. passive first is only good for garbo pubs that you'd stomp with any build. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:05 Two_DoWn wrote: Besides, arent items a better way to tank up than spending points on stats anyway? This isn't really true. There are certain heroes who happen to have 4 skills that are all strong enough to be completely better than Stats, but there are very many heroes who have skills that in many cases are situationally competitive with Stats. Enchantress has not 1 but 2 skills that are like this (there are definitely situations where you'll see 0-1-2-0 + 1 point stats at level 4 in pro games with Enchan). On August 27 2013 03:11 crms wrote: passive first is only good for garbo pubs that you'd stomp with any build. It's also good in tournament 1v1--Enchan is a strong counterpick to a lot of autoattack-based heroes in 1v1 tournaments because of Untouchable. It'd be useful if anyone played solo lane Enchan in pubs (which is still not bad as long as you don't get picked into a counter-lane like Bane, SD, or Lion). | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote: How does shifting points from w or e to q change that? the heal makes you very durable if they cant burst you down, regardless if it is spell damage or not. and because in early game most damage comes from spells, its preferable to untouchable. except when you play against 5 treants of course, than max the first skill all the way. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:13 TheYango wrote: This isn't really true. There are certain heroes who happen to have 4 skills that are all strong enough to be completely better than Stats, but there are very many heroes who have skills that in many cases are situationally competitive with Stats. Enchantress has not 1 but 2 skills that are like this (there are definitely situations where you'll see 0-1-2-0 + 1 point stats at level 4 in pro games with Enchan). It's also good in tournament 1v1--Enchan is a strong counterpick to a lot of autoattack-based heroes in 1v1 tournaments because of Untouchable. It'd be useful if anyone played solo lane Enchan in pubs (which is still not bad as long as you don't get picked into a counter-lane like Bane, SD, or Lion). That was more of my thought: take her away from the support role a bit and put her in more of a tank position, then throw her at objectives early and dare enemies to hit her. Plus it lets you have a lot of fun with Rosh. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Plus she has a damage skill that does more damage the further she is from the enemy. Being a frontline hero makes absolutely zero sense with her kit. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13088 Posts
troll lvl = master | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
On August 27 2013 02:07 BurningSera wrote: Well someone has to do this i guess, profile/match history patch please or it didnt happen. I mean, if your spectre can farm up radiance/refresher in a reasonable timeframe and pad it with +6 or +10 int, she'll blow up supports no matter what. The main thing I'm not sure about is whether having that much farm is the reason this build is so successful. The merits of double haunt depend on how the haunt illusions themselves actually deal damage. Like, most of spectre's illusion damage is 1. Desolate, 2. Radiance burn, 3. autoattacks, and all this is tied to their duration (both time-wise and life-wise). The main question you have to answer is whether adding more HP and Agi to the illusions actually "doubles" their effectiveness the same way as doubling their potential lifetime. I think doubling the lifetime of illusions in seconds is a very powerful way of getting the most from spectre's ult. But of course, the full lategame potential of it won't be realized until the illusions also benefit from heart as well as Agi items. Even until then, it has the potential to be really strong. The main weakness I see is that it does make spectre rely too much on the double ult to be effective, because refresher just doesn't help her fight or gank as well as diffusal blade with manta and/or heart outside of the refresher time. Traditionally you also see spectre's "core" lategame revolve around HP and agi items that primarily take advantage of dispersion and secondarily of radiance burn. The other weakness I see to this is that it does delay this "core" set of items. If you could farm radiance into refresher by...30 minutes(?), is it enough to offset delaying your core? Can it really accelerate your dominance if farmed at the right time and let you acquire your core? If the timing is delayed, will refresher be enough, or will you and your illusions just be too weak to make a difference? It can be really strong, but it's a different playstyle and set of goals for spectre. (1)Phase+Rad+Refresher = $11,800 (2)Phase+Drums+Diffusal+Heart = $11,925 1) focuses on killing with the ult, 2) focuses on killing alongside AND outside the ult. The two can (and probably should) converge, but until you get that farmed, you have to decide on one of two different playstyles. A 2) spectre can get in anybody's face at any time and isn't deathly afraid of ganks. She can go toe-to-toe with almost anyone A 1) spectre will get illusions in everyone's face every 160 seconds and prays she doesn't get ganked in the off-time. She can only afford to bully the underleveled and underfarmed until she gets even more farmed. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On August 27 2013 01:37 ChunderBoy wrote: You can freely change the variable in the editor. Don't post shit you're uncertain about. You can't change the chance to miss constant to damage reduction even though you can change the value of the miss chance. Also it's a game play constant not a variable ^_^ | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
Wow, this guy is so BM. | ||
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Darkren
Canada1841 Posts
5 gg branch + 1 health pot start on every hero till u die the first time ( Manliest build ever) | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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Daray
6006 Posts
David GoDz Parker @BTSGoDz 8m The upcoming @NEXON_KR Dota2 tournament is gonna get a lot more interesting for western fans soon, I can't wait to cast some of these games. humm? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 27 2013 03:49 Darkren wrote: I cant wait for the day we have an -ar/dm (all random/death match) game between pros, then we will be able to talk about the real metagame of the game. 5 gg branch + 1 health pot start on every hero till u die the first time ( Manliest build ever) The manliest build of all time is Huskar, is max Berserker's Blood, one point in flame spears and the ult and all stats until the game tells you to stop. Never buy self rejen until the game makes you. Live life without regrets. Manmode Huskar Style. | ||
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Some RNG I can live with, but jesus christ it can fuck mid lane up so grossly. 
