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On July 21 2013 01:12 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 01:05 MrCon wrote:On July 21 2013 01:03 SilverStar wrote:On July 21 2013 00:50 MrCon wrote:
One important topic to discuss would be why dota observers are so bad.
Look how often in laning phase they're observing a team about to engage and they just switch to someone freefarming while the health bar on top of the screen start dropping like crazy. It seems most of the time they don't see what they're looking at. As I type that, Mineski's Alchemist start channeling his stun under the observer's nose, and the observer goes to the lone farming Orange's gyrocopter. It's like he didn't notice what he was observing.
TLDR : Dota observers are fucking awful.
I love broad sweeping statements... Not all observers are fucking awful. Well, GD had a dedicated observer I think, who was good. So I'll be more specific and say that they're all awful but him. That is funny, cause both skrff and weppas have been criticized the most out of all observers
I don't remember that, I remember mostly praises about how they had a good obs :o
Anyway, I guess "fucking awful" was a gross exaggeration, let's say they're just very very average. What strikes me the most as I said is how they don't seem to see what they're looking at. Perhaps it's being used to starcraft (especially GOM's) observers who notice every single dot on the minimap, while most dota observers don't notice when the top green bars are moving like crazy.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
A lot of streams have casters be the observers which can influence both the quality of the cast and the observing.
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Sure say it's Valve's policy, obviously we know it's their policy... but don't act like it's been studied/debated and the finding is the cons outweigh the pros. Yes we know HoN's system was bad, I don't see anyone suggesting Valve copy that one, but maybe take a look at the most successful game in the genre's system. This topic comes up all the time because clearly it's a big deal to a lot of people, in fact I think plenty of people don't even play the game because they haven't added it.
In my opinion a better discussion Valve could promote would be about how they could add ranked queue successfully and what the benefits would be, because if they did it properly most of the arguments against it would not turn out to be true.
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On July 21 2013 01:58 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 01:57 PassiveAce wrote:
say what you will about tree
sst vs everyone is the real scourge of this thread
(not commenting on whos right or wrong or w/e just saying thats what it always comes down to.) ty lol. BTW people for some reason in pubs love to play ring around the warlock golem. i don't get it. its not a fight you can win, stop it lol.
I think the idea is to try and kite the golem while everyone else focuses it down.
It never happens though.
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They haven't had rating in the majority of competitive online games, from Counter Strike on.
I think it's pretty terrible when it comes to team-based games. Why would you want to look for a good team to regularly play with when you have an entire league to climb before you stopped getting flamed by people a league above you?
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On July 21 2013 02:16 rob.au wrote:
Sure say it's Valve's policy, obviously we know it's their policy... but don't act like it's been studied/debated and the finding is the cons outweigh the pros. Yes we know HoN's system was bad, I don't see anyone suggesting Valve copy that one, but maybe take a look at the most successful game in the genre's system. This topic comes up all the time because clearly it's a big deal to a lot of people, in fact I think plenty of people don't even play the game because they haven't added it.
In my opinion a better discussion Valve could promote would be about how they could add ranked queue successfully and what the benefits would be, because if they did it properly most of the arguments against it would not turn out to be true.
This is a bad arguement, because League's system is built on lies and misleading players into thinking they're progressing, and yes, encourages ALL SORTS OF UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR
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On the topic of visible mmr, I just want a way to be able to join a group of 4 random players from say, the TL channel, and have a general idea for the skill level o the group without having to look up each player. I think a comparable solution would be dividing the current 3 skill divisions into 5 and make it viewable in the dota profile.
On July 21 2013 01:02 lightsentry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2013 23:42 rob.au wrote:On July 20 2013 09:54 Doomblaze wrote:On July 20 2013 06:38 BurningSera wrote:On July 20 2013 06:28 superstartran wrote:On July 20 2013 05:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
If you want a serious ladder system, go out and make one. set up a website, set up rules, set up the valve API to have an auto ranking system. and actually do it. Don't ask valve to bastardize dota for your personal whims. How is it bastardizing DotA when all anyone is asking for is options? That's what I clearly don't understand from everyone else from the other side. All your arguments are basically based around anecdotes and opinions. does hon's casual mode ever work.and no, we have done this for about 10000times, the problems from visible mmr outweigh its benefits. 'you are trash unless you consistently show up in the first 10 pages.', someone said that here before, which is about 90% true for the current MM. You dont actually need a visible mmr, what you need is to go print screen all your games against/with dendi/merlini stack etc and make a blog, link it on your steam name, spam people with your 'real mmr' (aka uber huge penile organ) link to them whenever you are mad at them. I love you sera Can we sticky this to shut everyone up? Isn't casual mode no gold loss on death... etc? I think in hon's casual mode towers also give experience which is weird but kinda makes sense for casual. That being said hon has midwars which does work, is fairly casual and is pretty fun and itd be interesting to see that in dota 2.
HoN casual mode is double gold for hero kills, level ~2x as fast, no gold loss on death, denies don't deny exp, towrs give global exp, and I think thats it. Casual had a different mmr than normal mode, and it was pretty dead above 1700 mmr since it was filled with mostly smurfs and new players.
Edit: forgot you also get 2 gold per second instead of the standard 1.
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On July 21 2013 02:28 Najda wrote:
On the topic of visible mmr, I just want a way to be able to join a group of 4 random players from say, the TL channel, and have a general idea for the skill level o the group without having to look up each player. I think a comparable solution would be dividing the current 3 skill divisions into 5 and make it viewable in the dota profile.
That's honestly the only thing that's bugging me as well.
It's e.g. incredibly hard to easily find someone who might fit into your team skillwise; - since you don't have any idea what level they're at (before checking profiles, talking to them, playing with them etc.) you now not only have to filter people for character but also for their skill level. It's extremely tedious at this point.
Once you find a couple of people to work with at your level networking is key.
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change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks.
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On July 21 2013 02:33 icystorage wrote:
change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks.
I dont mid playing with any hero as long as the players who's playing him doesnt suck, people mostly suck with chen though
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On July 21 2013 02:33 icystorage wrote:
change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks.
Brood is by far the worst hero to play with by concept, for me. Any hero that forces you to 4v5 for long periods of time is bad in pubs, and Broods often end up ganked far more often without any punishment since the other 4 players don't put the same kind of pressure as in a pro game. There is always the terrible random meepo, etc., but assuming the hero is being played decently, I just hate brood.
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On July 21 2013 02:39 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 02:33 icystorage wrote:
change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks. Brood is by far the worst hero to play with by concept, for me. Any hero that forces you to 4v5 for long periods of time is bad in pubs, and Broods often end up ganked far more often without any punishment since the other 4 players don't put the same kind of pressure as in a pro game. There is always the terrible random meepo, etc., but assuming the hero is being played decently, I just hate brood.
does anybody even play brood anymore?
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United States47024 Posts
You can actually figure out the relative skill of several people in a group by playing around with the balanced shuffle feature in a custom lobby, but that takes way more effort than should be necessary.
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On July 21 2013 02:20 GreenGringo wrote:
They haven't had rating in the majority of competitive online games, from Counter Strike on.
I think it's pretty terrible when it comes to team-based games. Why would you want to look for a good team to regularly play with when you have an entire league to climb before you stopped getting flamed by people a league above you?
Majority of competitive games? bw/sc2/wc3/hon/lol/halo/guild wars/wow
I don't even understand where you go to get flamed? do you join irc channels and announce to everyone you are bronze league sc2 or something?
On July 21 2013 02:25 Shaella wrote:
This is a bad arguement, because League's system is built on lies and misleading players into thinking they're progressing, and yes, encourages ALL SORTS OF UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR
Really? Do you think a team of diamond players would lose to a team of platinum? would the average diamond player be better than the average gold player?
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On July 21 2013 02:41 icystorage wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 02:39 SKC wrote:On July 21 2013 02:33 icystorage wrote:
change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks. Brood is by far the worst hero to play with by concept, for me. Any hero that forces you to 4v5 for long periods of time is bad in pubs, and Broods often end up ganked far more often without any punishment since the other 4 players don't put the same kind of pressure as in a pro game. There is always the terrible random meepo, etc., but assuming the hero is being played decently, I just hate brood. does anybody even play brood anymore?
I do occasionally, when the teamcomp is right for a solo offlaner to be played
She's very strong at opening the map for your carry
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On July 21 2013 02:33 icystorage wrote:
change of subject: what kind of heroes do you guys dont want to play WITH?
for me it's sniper. having sniper as a teammate is such a pain. he is so item dependent and pretty much useless early game. he's easy to gank and you cant even leave him alone. he constantly needs baby sitting. the worst ones are the players that pick sniper even though spiritbreaker was picked. sniper sucks.
I would normally agree with you, but lately ive had a string of good snipers on my team who assist roaming ganks with assasinate, position themselves well, and tp in teamfights to assasinate. Broodmothera and meepos aside, probably axe and bloodseeker. Actually, fuck the jungle dooms that i queue witg.
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On July 21 2013 02:16 rob.au wrote:
[...] Yes we know HoN's system was bad, I don't see anyone suggesting Valve copy that one, but maybe take a look at the most successful game in the genre's system. [...]
So Valve needs to add a forfeit system. Also they should remove some heroes and make them unlockable (either via cash / amount of time played).
Also more sexy anime heroes!
"LoL does it" is a very bad argument. Because LoL does a lot of things.
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On July 21 2013 02:45 rob.au wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 02:25 Shaella wrote:
This is a bad arguement, because League's system is built on lies and misleading players into thinking they're progressing, and yes, encourages ALL SORTS OF UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR Really? Do you think a team of diamond players would lose to a team of platinum? would the average diamond player be better than the average gold player?
If the diamond players are all boosted to their rating from silver or someshit because they paid for it yes
ALL
SORTS
OF
UNDESIRABLE
BEHAVIOR
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I don't understand why people don't want a ranked queue. If you don't want to get ranked, then just keep playing the normal queue. Nobody will get forced to play competitive mode. Right now we have a bunch of crybabies who are scared of a number in a online videogame and don't want to let people, who like seeing numbers, have fun.
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Something different in between the 9001st discussion about ranked MM and visible ranking and shit:
I think the spectator UI needs a bit of improvement. Nothing big, but just some minor tweaks. I'm thinking of an option like there's in sc2, in which the casters are able to "remove" the UI, so spectators can see the whole fight happening. In addition to that, something I've seen in HoN streams is they have the option to zoom out even further than the regular zoom, so you can even see more of hugescale and spread out fights.
Especially in comparison to HoN and LoL I find their UIs overall more informative. We also have things like gold/exp difference, gpm, cs, k/d/a, gpm, current gold, names of players, ulti CD/enough mana [that green dot at the bottom of each hero portrait line up at the top of the screen] and some more, but usually you can only see two or maybe three of those things. Casters can't permanently switch between all that with just the one little window on the top left. Some info also only gets to the viewers when casters select the specific player in order to see more detailed info about him. I know ingame tickets are a big role in this as well, because if I want to know certain things I could check those myself.
I feel the UI is somewhat stacked for spectating and needs improvement, tho I don't have problems with the UI when playing. Despite the multi unit control, which is imo quite horrendous. Please note that I'm not saying something along the lines "volvo disband Dota2 UI, HoN/LoL superior MOBA"
For reference the spectator UIs of said games.
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EPT
