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General Discussion - Page 3278

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
July 09 2013 06:34 GMT
#65541
On July 09 2013 15:25 Kishin2 wrote:
Is it me or does Dota 2 not actually have any great casters? Relative to sc2, at least.

I consider Tobi + Synderen to be on par with Tastosis. Just too bad that Synderen casts relatively rarely. Apart from that there are a few other great pairings I enjoy listening to, but I cannot draw any comparisons as I haven't watched SC2 in over a year.
Moderator
Tsutchie
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia951 Posts
July 09 2013 06:35 GMT
#65542
On July 09 2013 15:25 Kishin2 wrote:
Is it me or does Dota 2 not actually have any great casters? Relative to sc2, at least.


if you're talking about the casting archons then i'd have to disagree with you, i've never really been a fan of their banter and their analysis pales in comparison to the translated korean casters. but at the end of the day its preference, you just haven't seen a dota 2 caster suited to your taste yet.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28103 Posts
July 09 2013 06:36 GMT
#65543
On par with Tastosis? No one is on par with Tastosis.

But I'm a mega fanboy, so opinion skewed
Administrator
tapes
Profile Joined January 2013
487 Posts
July 09 2013 06:44 GMT
#65544
On July 09 2013 15:33 rabidch wrote:
the only hell that exists in dota2 is smurf hell, where low sigma ratings and high/very high skill players are grouped together, resulting in games with frequent trolls and abandons

Still, statistically it shouldn't make a difference. In LoL, ELO hell has traditionally been an excuse for bad ratings and its existence has been proved to be nothing but an illusion. The only "hell" dota 2 has is lower priority pool, but if you end up there it's your own fault anyway.
CustomKal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada749 Posts
July 09 2013 06:57 GMT
#65545
Just thought I would throw this out in the general forum, but I just finished my first version of a dota 2 rainmeter skin if anyone is interested here
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 09 2013 06:59 GMT
#65546
On July 09 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote:
On par with Tastosis? No one is on par with Tastosis.

But I'm a mega fanboy, so opinion skewed

i actually really really dislike their commentary. that being said, when i met both of them they were awesome, and i liked tasteless' BW commentary, but eh.
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 07:03:46
July 09 2013 07:00 GMT
#65547
On July 09 2013 14:29 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 13:14 canikizu wrote:
On July 09 2013 12:22 TheYango wrote:
On July 09 2013 12:04 canikizu wrote:
I think a system shouldn't be designed to assume everybody is a smurf. The concept of smurfing, at core, still mean that you are trying to cheat the system. A system shouldn't assume everybody who has 8 win streak a smurf and accommodate by putting them through ranks unconditionally. It's gonna be hard to design a system to welcome and not overwhelm lucky newbies, while good enough to get smurfs up to their level conditionally.

The probability of a new player having an 8 game winstreak in their first 8 games is ridiculously low unless they stacked most/all of those games, and we've already established how the whole thing goes to shit when you start stacking with wide MMR disparities.

A new player doesn't get matched 8 games at beginner skill level and then get instantly bumped up to Very High, that's not how this works. He gets matched in games of gradually increasing skill and starts dropping down when he starts losing some games. So if the new player has a 50% chance to win against newbies, by the 4th or 5th game, he's probably only got a 30-40% chance to win against players that are somewhat better than newbies if he's won 3-4 games straight. The chance of winning 3-4 more games against players better than you like this is really really low. You've got like a 1/5000 chance of a new player accidentally boosting himself into an MMR he has no way of handling.

8 win streak was clearly an example, and an extreme case, but the point still stands though. We've been seeing a lot of people who has 20, 30, 40 win get matched with people who have 300, 500, 1000 win, and the 20win guy ended up autoattacking creep, not buying any sustains, feeding in obvious situations,..v.v. We all know that if you give it time, that guy will end up at the right place, but the problem is the system jumps the gun too fast, and by jumping it too fast, it creates bad playing experience for the other four, or nine.

And how often do you check the amount of wins for all 9 people? Doesn't exactly sound hard to get confirmation bias into "seeing this alot" or more important "seeing this more often than the other extreme".

...
So you never lost a game because of one player, and you wonder who this guy is, so you check his profile, and found out about his amounts of win as well as your whole team?
Seriously it's not magic, it's logic, normal logic.
Just because you don't check your team's profile doesn't mean other people don't check. This problem has been happening forever, and a lot of people vocal about it. It's not like I'm just delusional.

On July 09 2013 15:25 Kishin2 wrote:
Is it me or does Dota 2 not actually have any great casters? Relative to sc2, at least.

I thought so too. Compared to SC2 and LoL, I think Dota2's casters are inferior, I rarely learn anything or got any information everytime I watch a dota2 cast.
But then again, it maybe because my knowledge of dota2 is more than other game's
tapes
Profile Joined January 2013
487 Posts
July 09 2013 07:02 GMT
#65548
On July 09 2013 15:57 CustomKal wrote:
Just thought I would throw this out in the general forum, but I just finished my first version of a dota 2 rainmeter skin if anyone is interested here

That looks great
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
July 09 2013 07:06 GMT
#65549
I think DotA2 has a lot of good casters.. But the problem is that we don't have any good analysts that are regularly casting
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
July 09 2013 07:10 GMT
#65550
On July 09 2013 16:00 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 14:29 r.Evo wrote:
On July 09 2013 13:14 canikizu wrote:
On July 09 2013 12:22 TheYango wrote:
On July 09 2013 12:04 canikizu wrote:
I think a system shouldn't be designed to assume everybody is a smurf. The concept of smurfing, at core, still mean that you are trying to cheat the system. A system shouldn't assume everybody who has 8 win streak a smurf and accommodate by putting them through ranks unconditionally. It's gonna be hard to design a system to welcome and not overwhelm lucky newbies, while good enough to get smurfs up to their level conditionally.

The probability of a new player having an 8 game winstreak in their first 8 games is ridiculously low unless they stacked most/all of those games, and we've already established how the whole thing goes to shit when you start stacking with wide MMR disparities.

A new player doesn't get matched 8 games at beginner skill level and then get instantly bumped up to Very High, that's not how this works. He gets matched in games of gradually increasing skill and starts dropping down when he starts losing some games. So if the new player has a 50% chance to win against newbies, by the 4th or 5th game, he's probably only got a 30-40% chance to win against players that are somewhat better than newbies if he's won 3-4 games straight. The chance of winning 3-4 more games against players better than you like this is really really low. You've got like a 1/5000 chance of a new player accidentally boosting himself into an MMR he has no way of handling.

8 win streak was clearly an example, and an extreme case, but the point still stands though. We've been seeing a lot of people who has 20, 30, 40 win get matched with people who have 300, 500, 1000 win, and the 20win guy ended up autoattacking creep, not buying any sustains, feeding in obvious situations,..v.v. We all know that if you give it time, that guy will end up at the right place, but the problem is the system jumps the gun too fast, and by jumping it too fast, it creates bad playing experience for the other four, or nine.

And how often do you check the amount of wins for all 9 people? Doesn't exactly sound hard to get confirmation bias into "seeing this alot" or more important "seeing this more often than the other extreme".

...
So you never lost a game because of one player, and you wonder who this guy is, so you check his profile, and found out about his amounts of win as well as your whole team?
Seriously it's not magic, it's logic, normal logic.
Just because you don't check your team's profile doesn't mean other people don't check. This problem has been happening forever, and a lot of people vocal about it. It's not like I'm just delusional.

That's not the point. The point is that if e.g. that happens every 10 games you might not notice that in the other 9 games you had someone with a low amount of wins who played incredibly well, but no one bothered to check. That's where confirmation bias comes in.

Hell, you even start with the premise of actively looking for the stats of people who played badly. Of course you'll find them.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Kishin2
Profile Joined May 2011
United States7534 Posts
July 09 2013 07:15 GMT
#65551
2011 Tastosis was the best thing to ever happen to sc2, in my opinion. They started falling off a bit the next year, but for English casters they were unparalleled.

Tobi + Synderen is really good, but yeah, not really around nowadays. Personally, I think Tobi has the most potential to be a great caster but he's stagnated a bit on his casts and hasn't really improved too much (being consistently and openly controversial doesn't help either). LD gets my vote for the best individual caster (second to v1lat) overall right now, but he doesn't really have the right co-commentator to reinforce that.

I can't really comment on Korean casts much, but the Korean NSL casts were pretty entertaining, despite not understanding a word. But the Korean ( and Chinese) casters aren't also the ones observing the game, which might have something to do with the style of commentary in general.

That brings up another issue with English casters. They're casting and observing simultaneously (and not doing a very good job on the observing front, in general). If I recall correctly, Starcraft 2 English casters did this as well up until a point. There might be inherent differences between the two games to warrant giving a caster camera control (indicating warding spots, attack paths, drawing, etc.), but it's a detriment if the caster isn't adept at watching the hero health/minimap while he/she speaks. I'm pretty sure LoL has dedicated observers, but I don't think their game has the ability to draw on the map.
Feniqs
Profile Joined February 2010
United States14 Posts
July 09 2013 07:23 GMT
#65552
Hy Wld someone plz help me out?

I would like to Deny creeps, and throw my Unstable Potion from Alchemist, but have found no key or key combo that will enable this activity.

I have used 'A' move, 'A' left click, 'A' right click, Shift (all of the previous), all w/ no luck. I even found an article online that wanted me to alter my Game Preferences in Steam, but had to reset after that.

Anyone able/willing to help w/ that?
For any geniuses out there who generally don't help, you can see I have been trying to do this for myself, am willing to put in the work, so plz proffer your assistance.

Thanks, Curt

P.S. I couldn't find a forum that seem more appropriate for this subject, so plz forgive me if it is in wrong place.
Lookin for an SC2 practice partner/group with vent
andy186
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1058 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 07:40:10
July 09 2013 07:36 GMT
#65553
You press the key assigned to unstable concoction again after activating it? should be 'W'

I assume thats what you mean because I don't see why you would want to bind some macro key to deny a creep and throw concoction at the same time when you can just do it?

I re read your post and think I understand it now you have to wait till creep is under half health then a left click it will order an attack command otherwise it doesn't work
Mithhaike
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Singapore2759 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 07:41:49
July 09 2013 07:41 GMT
#65554
On July 09 2013 16:23 Feniqs wrote:
Hy Wld someone plz help me out?

I would like to Deny creeps, and throw my Unstable Potion from Alchemist, but have found no key or key combo that will enable this activity.

I have used 'A' move, 'A' left click, 'A' right click, Shift (all of the previous), all w/ no luck. I even found an article online that wanted me to alter my Game Preferences in Steam, but had to reset after that.

Anyone able/willing to help w/ that?
For any geniuses out there who generally don't help, you can see I have been trying to do this for myself, am willing to put in the work, so plz proffer your assistance.

Thanks, Curt

P.S. I couldn't find a forum that seem more appropriate for this subject, so plz forgive me if it is in wrong place.


You cant deny your own creeps with spells if thats what you mean. Only 3 spells that deny creeps are Infest(naix)/Dark Pact(clinkz)/ the mana skill for lich that I forgot the name from.

As for physical attack, you can only deny creep that are at half HP or less, just issue a attack command on them.

BTW you should ask your question in the dota 2 strategy, quick question quick answer section(aka ask-yango thread).
Mew Mew Pew Pew
hfglgg
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany5372 Posts
July 09 2013 07:42 GMT
#65555
On July 09 2013 16:23 Feniqs wrote:
Hy Wld someone plz help me out?

I would like to Deny creeps, and throw my Unstable Potion from Alchemist, but have found no key or key combo that will enable this activity.

I have used 'A' move, 'A' left click, 'A' right click, Shift (all of the previous), all w/ no luck. I even found an article online that wanted me to alter my Game Preferences in Steam, but had to reset after that.

Anyone able/willing to help w/ that?
For any geniuses out there who generally don't help, you can see I have been trying to do this for myself, am willing to put in the work, so plz proffer your assistance.

Thanks, Curt

P.S. I couldn't find a forum that seem more appropriate for this subject, so plz forgive me if it is in wrong place.


deny creeps is attackmove + left click. maybe you have changed your keybindings so attackmove is something different than A?

for unstable concoction just press the hotkey for it again.
Feniqs
Profile Joined February 2010
United States14 Posts
July 09 2013 07:45 GMT
#65556
Sorry...I didn't do a very good job of coving the stuff I have done so far...I did figure out that it wants me to press the W again....hmmm...just had a thought...I may have pushed it too early...does the W key actually launch the concoction, or do you still have to left/right click afterward. Also, yes, I have been trying to Last Hit the creeps, so they are WAY below 1/2 health...but it wont let me attack them...I have tried it on Brood Mother, Alchemist, Venomancer, TA...all the same.

Thank you for the reply though.
Lookin for an SC2 practice partner/group with vent
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 07:48:19
July 09 2013 07:46 GMT
#65557
Press "W" for Unstable Connoction once to get it channeled (a timer should appear above Your hero, couting from 5.5sec to 0,5sec iirc) and to stun u need to press "W" again and target enemy hero with a left click to get it launched. If You do not click "W" for the 2nd time and targeted enemy hero with a left click and timer reaches to "0", You will get Yourself stunned and damaged. The longer You channel the stun, the longer it will last.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Feniqs
Profile Joined February 2010
United States14 Posts
July 09 2013 08:00 GMT
#65558
Okay, thanks for the help guys it turns out I was trying to use it against creeps, even neutrals, ancients, and Roshan, but it will Only work vs enemy Hero's.

Thx for the help w/ the Alchemist part
Lookin for an SC2 practice partner/group with vent
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
July 09 2013 08:12 GMT
#65559
On July 09 2013 16:41 Mithhaike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 16:23 Feniqs wrote:
Hy Wld someone plz help me out?

I would like to Deny creeps, and throw my Unstable Potion from Alchemist, but have found no key or key combo that will enable this activity.

I have used 'A' move, 'A' left click, 'A' right click, Shift (all of the previous), all w/ no luck. I even found an article online that wanted me to alter my Game Preferences in Steam, but had to reset after that.

Anyone able/willing to help w/ that?
For any geniuses out there who generally don't help, you can see I have been trying to do this for myself, am willing to put in the work, so plz proffer your assistance.

Thanks, Curt

P.S. I couldn't find a forum that seem more appropriate for this subject, so plz forgive me if it is in wrong place.


You cant deny your own creeps with spells if thats what you mean. Only 3 spells that deny creeps are Infest(naix)/Dark Pact(clinkz)/ the mana skill for lich that I forgot the name from.

As for physical attack, you can only deny creep that are at half HP or less, just issue a attack command on them.

BTW you should ask your question in the dota 2 strategy, quick question quick answer section(aka ask-yango thread).

You forgot enigma you noob
Moderator
Jinxed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States6450 Posts
July 09 2013 08:19 GMT
#65560
On July 09 2013 17:12 Firebolt145 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 16:41 Mithhaike wrote:
On July 09 2013 16:23 Feniqs wrote:
Hy Wld someone plz help me out?

I would like to Deny creeps, and throw my Unstable Potion from Alchemist, but have found no key or key combo that will enable this activity.

I have used 'A' move, 'A' left click, 'A' right click, Shift (all of the previous), all w/ no luck. I even found an article online that wanted me to alter my Game Preferences in Steam, but had to reset after that.

Anyone able/willing to help w/ that?
For any geniuses out there who generally don't help, you can see I have been trying to do this for myself, am willing to put in the work, so plz proffer your assistance.

Thanks, Curt

P.S. I couldn't find a forum that seem more appropriate for this subject, so plz forgive me if it is in wrong place.


You cant deny your own creeps with spells if thats what you mean. Only 3 spells that deny creeps are Infest(naix)/Dark Pact(clinkz)/ the mana skill for lich that I forgot the name from.

As for physical attack, you can only deny creep that are at half HP or less, just issue a attack command on them.

BTW you should ask your question in the dota 2 strategy, quick question quick answer section(aka ask-yango thread).

You forgot enigma you noob


Only people who have above a 50% win rate can call others noobs.

Ya noob.
LiquidDota Staff"LeLoup is a great name pls undo." -Liquid`Nazgul
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