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General Discussion - Page 3276

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
July 08 2013 22:07 GMT
#65501


Bryan Herren
‏@Kpoptosis
"So, after talking with IceFrog, I can say I will be attending #TI3 in Seattle to work stats for the group stages, as well as the finals!"

Grats kpoptosis!
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 22:11:00
July 08 2013 22:08 GMT
#65502
looked at the wrong post
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
July 08 2013 22:09 GMT
#65503
On July 09 2013 06:55 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 06:48 NB wrote:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96278&page=6

knock yourself out

There are people that think there were only 600 people online when sing was #1 player MMR-wise?
Wut. There was not 300k but definitely not 600 either, i think there was like 40 or 50k?

well, they also proposed to switch everything to visible MMR and implementing a HoN-like ladder :-/
Im pretty sure Valve already wipe that option out of the table.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
July 08 2013 22:37 GMT
#65504
I find the MMR globally accurate. My only problem is bad stacks, they boost MMR too much I find. I also don't like tryhard stack who goes for easy combos like CK/wisp.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 23:21:08
July 08 2013 23:20 GMT
#65505
On July 09 2013 06:48 NB wrote:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96278&page=6

knock yourself out


What a complete mess of a forum. I'm losing braincells just looking at that thread. They make it look like TL is made up of mensa candidates compared.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
July 08 2013 23:23 GMT
#65506
On July 09 2013 08:20 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 06:48 NB wrote:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96278&page=6

knock yourself out


What a complete mess of a forum. I'm losing braincells just looking at that thread. They make it look like TL is made up of mensa candidates compared.

It's not exactly a discussion forum. It does a good job getting feedback on bugs, server issues and even a general opinion the public may have on a particular change.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
July 08 2013 23:27 GMT
#65507
On July 09 2013 08:23 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 08:20 Excludos wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:48 NB wrote:
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=96278&page=6

knock yourself out


What a complete mess of a forum. I'm losing braincells just looking at that thread. They make it look like TL is made up of mensa candidates compared.

It's not exactly a discussion forum. It does a good job getting feedback on bugs, server issues and even a general opinion the public may have on a particular change.


I'm not sure I would want feedback from people who sincerely believes that statistics a developer comes out with is wrong because his personal experience doesn't match, and then warp the quotes from the statistics to make it look like the developer is a retard by placing it out of context.
Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 23:33:48
July 08 2013 23:32 GMT
#65508
You sound like you never were active on a game forum other than TL.
People get frustrated when they lose and adding total anonymity of the internet has always lead to outrageous claims and pure vitriolic behavior.
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
sirreginold
Profile Joined September 2011
United States557 Posts
July 09 2013 00:00 GMT
#65509
I've been matched up with players with sub 50 wins a few times while the other team has 300-1k wins. I'm at 500 wins myself. Don't know how that makes sense.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8279 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 00:04:52
July 09 2013 00:03 GMT
#65510
On July 09 2013 08:32 Mataza wrote:
You sound like you never were active on a game forum other than TL.
People get frustrated when they lose and adding total anonymity of the internet has always lead to outrageous claims and pure vitriolic behavior.


I used to be active on several different forums. TL has spoiled me. Now nothing is good enough anymore Even though there are bad apples here as well, at least I can get some kind of discussion going, instead of the usual "I can typing!" answers that other forums provide.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
July 09 2013 00:07 GMT
#65511
I never felt the need to create an account on any forum until I started reading TL
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Cool Cat
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1644 Posts
July 09 2013 00:18 GMT
#65512
On July 09 2013 06:55 TheEmulator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 06:37 Cool Cat wrote:
well a problem with the mm system imo has always been that it places such a large emphasis on number of games played, where even if you're 40-0 on a smurf account you don't get matched with people with more than 100 wins, and likewise even in page 1-5 games, you'll have players who are pretty bad but just have a huge number of games played.

although this might've changed very recently who knows, since a few days ago i was on a 12-0 smurf and all of my teammates had 300+ wins as far as i could tell

Yes, Eric Tams mentioned on an official dev thread that number of games played was a minor factor in the matchmaking algorithm. Not the MMR algorithm though, just mm. Were you playing solo queue btw?

No, but the two people I queued with had a low number of wins. One had 20 wins, and the other 30 wins. The two teammates on my team both had over 500 wins, and the other team all had around over 300 wins except for one player with 80 wins.

Idk, maybe this game was just an outlier and not indicative of any actual mm algorithm changes.
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
July 09 2013 00:18 GMT
#65513
Has anyone here used dota lounge for betting on matches?
All the bots keep ignoring me :c
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
LSB
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5171 Posts
July 09 2013 00:29 GMT
#65514
On July 09 2013 09:18 Zealos wrote:
Has anyone here used dota lounge for betting on matches?
All the bots keep ignoring me :c

Did you hit add bot as friend?
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action. Bus Driver can never target themselves I'm sorry
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
July 09 2013 00:36 GMT
#65515
On July 09 2013 09:18 Cool Cat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 06:55 TheEmulator wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:37 Cool Cat wrote:
well a problem with the mm system imo has always been that it places such a large emphasis on number of games played, where even if you're 40-0 on a smurf account you don't get matched with people with more than 100 wins, and likewise even in page 1-5 games, you'll have players who are pretty bad but just have a huge number of games played.

although this might've changed very recently who knows, since a few days ago i was on a 12-0 smurf and all of my teammates had 300+ wins as far as i could tell

Yes, Eric Tams mentioned on an official dev thread that number of games played was a minor factor in the matchmaking algorithm. Not the MMR algorithm though, just mm. Were you playing solo queue btw?

No, but the two people I queued with had a low number of wins. One had 20 wins, and the other 30 wins. The two teammates on my team both had over 500 wins, and the other team all had around over 300 wins except for one player with 80 wins.

Idk, maybe this game was just an outlier and not indicative of any actual mm algorithm changes.


As far as I know, the only thing eric tams said is that they value matches played "somewhat" in terms of a confidence factor. e.g. if someone played 1000 games, they know their true mmr is really close to their displayed mmr. But that wouldn't be (as) true for someone with only 50-100 games.

This might have the side-effect of matching high win players together because if you have 10 people, all of whom played 500 games and they're all around X MMR, it will be a really good match.

But, afaik, Eric tams never said anything like using #-of-wins to match players. It wouldn't make sense. Games-played and skill have very little to do with each other.
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
July 09 2013 00:40 GMT
#65516
On July 09 2013 09:29 LSB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 09:18 Zealos wrote:
Has anyone here used dota lounge for betting on matches?
All the bots keep ignoring me :c

Did you hit add bot as friend?

Yeah, eventually it just ignores my request :c
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
July 09 2013 01:00 GMT
#65517
On July 09 2013 09:18 Cool Cat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 06:55 TheEmulator wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:37 Cool Cat wrote:
well a problem with the mm system imo has always been that it places such a large emphasis on number of games played, where even if you're 40-0 on a smurf account you don't get matched with people with more than 100 wins, and likewise even in page 1-5 games, you'll have players who are pretty bad but just have a huge number of games played.

although this might've changed very recently who knows, since a few days ago i was on a 12-0 smurf and all of my teammates had 300+ wins as far as i could tell

Yes, Eric Tams mentioned on an official dev thread that number of games played was a minor factor in the matchmaking algorithm. Not the MMR algorithm though, just mm. Were you playing solo queue btw?

No, but the two people I queued with had a low number of wins. One had 20 wins, and the other 30 wins. The two teammates on my team both had over 500 wins, and the other team all had around over 300 wins except for one player with 80 wins.

Idk, maybe this game was just an outlier and not indicative of any actual mm algorithm changes.

Well if you're not playing solo MM those 20 wins people might as well been friends of the other teammates.
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
Cool Cat
Profile Joined June 2009
United States1644 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 01:06:37
July 09 2013 01:03 GMT
#65518
On July 09 2013 10:00 Talron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 09:18 Cool Cat wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:55 TheEmulator wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:37 Cool Cat wrote:
well a problem with the mm system imo has always been that it places such a large emphasis on number of games played, where even if you're 40-0 on a smurf account you don't get matched with people with more than 100 wins, and likewise even in page 1-5 games, you'll have players who are pretty bad but just have a huge number of games played.

although this might've changed very recently who knows, since a few days ago i was on a 12-0 smurf and all of my teammates had 300+ wins as far as i could tell

Yes, Eric Tams mentioned on an official dev thread that number of games played was a minor factor in the matchmaking algorithm. Not the MMR algorithm though, just mm. Were you playing solo queue btw?

No, but the two people I queued with had a low number of wins. One had 20 wins, and the other 30 wins. The two teammates on my team both had over 500 wins, and the other team all had around over 300 wins except for one player with 80 wins.

Idk, maybe this game was just an outlier and not indicative of any actual mm algorithm changes.

Well if you're not playing solo MM those 20 wins people might as well been friends of the other teammates.

? the people with 20 and 30 wins were the people i queued with

edit: who cares, mm has been pretty decent for me if i'm not smurfing
Talron
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany7651 Posts
July 09 2013 01:05 GMT
#65519
Ah, misunderstood that then. Nvm me.
EHOME 2010 never forget EHOME.GIGABYTE.AAA B-God In BurNing we trust BurNing your soul DK 2011-2014
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28103 Posts
July 09 2013 01:30 GMT
#65520
On July 09 2013 09:36 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 09:18 Cool Cat wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:55 TheEmulator wrote:
On July 09 2013 06:37 Cool Cat wrote:
well a problem with the mm system imo has always been that it places such a large emphasis on number of games played, where even if you're 40-0 on a smurf account you don't get matched with people with more than 100 wins, and likewise even in page 1-5 games, you'll have players who are pretty bad but just have a huge number of games played.

although this might've changed very recently who knows, since a few days ago i was on a 12-0 smurf and all of my teammates had 300+ wins as far as i could tell

Yes, Eric Tams mentioned on an official dev thread that number of games played was a minor factor in the matchmaking algorithm. Not the MMR algorithm though, just mm. Were you playing solo queue btw?

No, but the two people I queued with had a low number of wins. One had 20 wins, and the other 30 wins. The two teammates on my team both had over 500 wins, and the other team all had around over 300 wins except for one player with 80 wins.

Idk, maybe this game was just an outlier and not indicative of any actual mm algorithm changes.


As far as I know, the only thing eric tams said is that they value matches played "somewhat" in terms of a confidence factor. e.g. if someone played 1000 games, they know their true mmr is really close to their displayed mmr. But that wouldn't be (as) true for someone with only 50-100 games.

This might have the side-effect of matching high win players together because if you have 10 people, all of whom played 500 games and they're all around X MMR, it will be a really good match.

But, afaik, Eric tams never said anything like using #-of-wins to match players. It wouldn't make sense. Games-played and skill have very little to do with each other.

Of course he never said that, and no one here is saying that. My original post just said that Eric Tams mentioned number of games was a minor factor in MM. "minor". Not the sole factor.

"EricTams advised that changes have been made to the matchmaking algorithms to utilize the number of games played amongst other things." From DevDota April 11th.

Now how this factor works, idk. It's probably a confidence factor like you mentioned.
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