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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:44 Gheizen64 wrote: 7 games win streak, 5 games losing streak, getting against 5-man stacks all the fucking time gg volvo :V Wrong thread  I won two games in a row as morphling, which I haven't done in a long time. The catch: I built Linkens both games. I feel bad. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:50 FinestHour wrote: they put in solo que for you a while ago could just as well say they put in a TMM for those stackers months ago. :p On June 11 2013 04:51 PassiveAce wrote: The skill difference in solo que is worse then the chance of meeting a 5 stack imo. I haven't even tried it. is it really that different compared to normal MM? Skill wise, that is. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
What was his strenght ? Insane regeneration and harassment, both of which get countered hard by bottle crow abuse. I really like the him, but I fear that in his current state he is a dead hero and it's a shame because a well played Invoker is quite entertaining to watch. Oh well... what can we do about it ... | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:58 BlitzerSC wrote: What was his strenght ? Insane regeneration and harassment, both of which get countered hard by bottle crow abuse. I really like the him, but I fear that in his current state he is a dead hero and it's a shame because a well played Invoker is quite entertaining to watch. Oh well... what can we do about it ... Your view is based on the incorrect belief that bottle-crowing was a solely post-TI2 phenomenon, which is simply wrong. Bottle-crowing was already ubiquitous in China in 6.73 (and in Pinoy DotA well before then)--yet Invoker was equally ubiquitous in spite of this. Bottle-crowing doesn't nullify Invoker's lane advantages. In fact, prior to the base damage nerf, Invoker's advantages were strong enough to even suppress the common bottle-crow mids. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On June 11 2013 05:01 TheYango wrote: Your view is based on the incorrect belief that bottle-crowing was a solely post-TI2 phenomenon, which is simply wrong. Bottle-crowing was already ubiquitous in China in 6.73 (and in Pinoy DotA well before then)--yet Invoker was equally ubiquitous in spite of this. Bottle-crowing doesn't nullify Invoker's lane advantages. In fact, prior to the base damage nerf, Invoker's advantages were strong enough to even suppress the common bottle-crow mids. I wonder how much of this is due to the damage nerfs that affect him, and how much of it is slow reactionary nerfs other than that (such as qw nerfs) have happened overtime. Yeah, but the damage nerfs really hit hard D: | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Force staff was changed(nerfed for him) Drums were nerfed Base damage was nerfed The rise of TA attributed a lot to moving Invoker out of the lane aswell. | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
Also, multiple building selection is ruining dota! | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:17 Sn0_Man wrote: Alright, invoker got stealth nerfed in 6.78 with the drums cost change and ESPECIALLY the XP for levels 11 and 12 change. Specifically, level 11 hits 500 xp sooner (which is a huge-ass buff to ulti dependant heroes and doesn't do too much for invoker unless you are specifically Q-E double-spirits with a safety wex point, since 11 = 4q 1w 4e 2invoke) but level 12 hits 500xp LATER than ever before which is huge because 12 is when invoker gets level 3 invoke. Admittedly force staff got like 100g cheaper, so drums + force is now 50g cheaper if you go that route, AND bottle crow got nerfed, but still. Thoughts on ways to bring him back as at least a situational pick? Personally, (and i'm no invoker expert here), I feel like maybe just reverting the base damage change would be a nice start. It isn't like QW invoker doesn't still have awful base damage with the nerf reverted. I'd hesitate to call it a nerf. The exp to hit level 12 is the same (the 500 added exp is the 500 exp that was removed from hitting level 11) so you hit level 12 at exactly the same time you would before. The exp change is only significant for lower position heroes who are likely to clip levels like your position four or five support. The opposing mid is very likely to have obtained that 500 additional exp before it mattered although there would be a very tiny timing window now. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 11 2013 05:18 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I'd hesitate to call it a nerf. The exp to hit level 12 is the same (the 500 added exp is the 500 exp that was removed from hitting level 11) so you hit level 12 at exactly the same time you would before. The exp change is only significant for lower position heroes who are likely to clip levels like your position four or five support. The opposing mid is very likely to have obtained that 500 additional exp before it mattered although there would be a very tiny timing window now. No it's not. * Level 11 XP requirements reduced from 6500 to 6000 * Level 12 XP requirements increased from 7700 to 8200 The XP numbers listed are the TOTAL XP, not the XP from 10->11 and 11->12. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 11 2013 05:24 TheYango wrote: No it's not. * Level 11 XP requirements reduced from 6500 to 6000 * Level 12 XP requirements increased from 7700 to 8200 The XP numbers listed are the TOTAL XP, not the XP from 10->11 and 11->12. I just did the math wrong. Not sure how I thought 8200-6000 was 1200 ^_^ | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Getting level 12 is almost comical, since after these changes it takes 600 xp to get 11, then 2200 for 12, then back to 800 for level 13. BTW the general rule of thumb is (level you are getting to)*100 for experience to level up. The first level up to level 2 is 2*100 = 200 XP. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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pedrlz
Brazil5234 Posts
shit valve, why you so mean | ||
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I mean, its definitely a buff to heroes who really rely on that level 11 but are not placed in farming roles. Or really any hero who looks to hit 11 and snowball from that. And I suppose heroes who need level 2 ult for it to be good (*cough* CK *cough*). Really, I think it helps almost everybody but invoker lol. Oh, and maybe doom with his lvl?death ability XD (11 is prime). | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
Also, Darkseers totally need to alter their skill buid and go for level 2 wall + level 4 vacuum on level 11, instead of 12 now. The 1 extra level needed is huge. | ||
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Tsutchie
Australia951 Posts
On June 11 2013 05:34 Incze wrote: I'd really love for invoker to come back in the spotlight, but I understand why icefrog doesn't want to revert his base damage nerf. It's his thing, his weakness, along with low movement speed. Maybe there's another way to buff him, less direct. i loved quas wex but its just not viable anymore, trying to last hit with quas wex is like trying to knock someone out with a paper bag... i wished they'd buff my fav hero up soon, the buffs this patch did nothing to bring him back into the scene. | ||
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