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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:16 Darkren wrote: It's more like general forum is a place where somebody ask a question and yango answers, [b]but his answer is not totaly complete so someone comes with a minor objection and yango keeps talking to himself. Damn, I got found out. | ||
Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
Also: Apparently the chinese now save up 1 obs ward from the beginning so they only use 1 lane ward and 0 rune ward. After that mid game they have 3 wards watching all the lanes and rotation. Such a smart adaption. | ||
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givemefive
United States300 Posts
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:31 NB wrote: Watching DK.Super windrunner is such a treat. Also: Apparently the chinese now save up 1 obs ward from the beginning so they only use 1 lane ward and 0 rune ward. After that mid game they have 3 wards watching all the lanes and rotation. Such a smart adaption. Well, you really don't need that rune ward if someone on different lane (that is most likely triple) checks it for you. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On June 07 2013 12:19 JeeJee wrote: The thing is that everyone had it. Maybe not everyone was aware.. that's different. Valve could put it into options. Not everybody knows SD says "sa nith ika gluth" when he casts disruption either. Am I having an innate advantage by knowing that if I cast split earth at the same time as 'ika' that it'll autostun everybody? Others have to guess the duration, after all. On a side note I played a pudge game today and realized how much I miss this for placing hooks. I kept hovering my mouse over the skill, which worked pretty well. I could get used to that. Maybe valve should add something like that for dagger and xp. You're comparing the wrong things. Range indicator is similar to meepo and invoker macros. Sure everyone has access to them, doesn't make them good for the game though. It was removed with good reason. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:26 Caladbolg wrote: I've finally gotten a friend of mine to play Dota 2 (he used to play sparingly in Dota 1 and was a pretty bad player). I noticed two major problems of his: first is last hitting (he's still pretty much an auto-attack guy), and second is skill use on creeps (sometimes he spams on the creeps, like with veno, but on other heroes he's a bit too conservative like with razor) and heroes (sometimes he doesn't harass with his orb skills enough, like with viper or drow). Quick question for anyone: what hero would you suggest he play for the next few games we have so that he'll get used to those two things? I was thinking viper or drow but viper is a bit too easy with the ult and drow isn't a good pick for someone who doesn't know how to position his hero. Also, neither one has an escape mechanism that would be useful for new players. (personally I was thinking maybe weaver?) He has to understand what is laning about first imo.I find that most new players have no idea what laning is about, when it's arguably the most important part of the game. It usually dictates who's going to win that game. Tell him this few simple concepts, once he understands those few concepts he has hereby graduated from a bad player to a not-so-bad player. Rest is just practice & experience. 1) There's a finite amount of resources on the map at any one time,every bit of gold is precious. 2) Always go for last hits only, unless you want to push the lane out. 3) Dont die and watch the minimap. There's usually plenty of clues when someone is trying to gank you. Simple guidelines for using spells on creeps:- 1) Stop a enemy push. 2) When you want to push out the lane. 3) when you have full mana and you expect to be able to regen it back. Heroes selection your right about him choosing a hero that has a escape mechanism, makes life easier for new players. Any of the invisible/invincible heroes will do good for him. Maybe a Riki is a good start. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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DR.Ham
Netherlands621 Posts
On June 07 2013 15:33 givemefive wrote: huskar Laguna blade only gives him a nice gentle tickle with the new magic resistance: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pascTSI.png) | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On June 07 2013 16:40 LAN-f34r wrote: I completely disagree on giving an extremely escapable hero to a starting player. They need to learn things like "if I go there I die", not to manage to escape because the opponents are too bad to buy detection. Once they have some sense of how close you can get to enemies before you just get jumped on and die instantly, they can use any hero they want and be fine. Hence, long range heroes like lich, warlock, etc, or tanky heroes like tidehunter, Leoric, etc are my personal recommendations for starting use. yep, we always give lich to any new player who plays with us. lich is a very good starting hero in my opinion for the following reasons: he is ranged with relatively high hp. his spells are all point and click which make them easy to use and the single rule for when to use lich ulti is "if there is more than 1 unit, press R". every new player gets this right and can rack up a few kills or at least feel somewhat usefull. sacrifice helps with mana issues. a lot of new player either use spells too much and are always out of mana or use spells to little and are not very usefull. sacrifice also helps to get a level advantage at lane which helps new players. last but not least, lich isnt either item nor level dependent (lvl 6 is enough) which is always great to new players. level 2 newbie hero was always skeleton king but he has to many buttons now, lol. | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
actually seem to happen everytime you hook on Medusa. actually #2, seems to be medusa ulti that causes the crashing. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On June 07 2013 16:33 Mithhaike wrote: He has to understand what is laning about first imo.I find that most new players have no idea what laning is about, when it's arguably the most important part of the game. It usually dictates who's going to win that game. Tell him this few simple concepts, once he understands those few concepts he has hereby graduated from a bad player to a not-so-bad player. Rest is just practice & experience. 1) There's a finite amount of resources on the map at any one time,every bit of gold is precious. 2) Always go for last hits only, unless you want to push the lane out. 3) Dont die and watch the minimap. There's usually plenty of clues when someone is trying to gank you. Simple guidelines for using spells on creeps:- 1) Stop a enemy push. 2) When you want to push out the lane. 3) when you have full mana and you expect to be able to regen it back. Heroes selection your right about him choosing a hero that has a escape mechanism, makes life easier for new players. Any of the invisible/invincible heroes will do good for him. Maybe a Riki is a good start. Thanks. I've already given him most of those tips but in practice it's quite hard to make sure he follows those guidelines, especially since new players have a tendency to panic at the sight of other players' spells and damage taken (most irritating thing when playing with newbies - they always retreat at the WRONG times, and then suddenly feed by being caught out of position). My only issue with Riki is his low HP - when you get nuked, you get HURT. Was thinking DK, maybe? On June 07 2013 16:40 LAN-f34r wrote: I completely disagree on giving an extremely escapable hero to a starting player. They need to learn things like "if I go there I die", not to manage to escape because the opponents are too bad to buy detection. Once they have some sense of how close you can get to enemies before you just get jumped on and die instantly, they can use any hero they want and be fine. Hence, long range heroes like lich, warlock, etc, or tanky heroes like tidehunter, Leoric, etc are my personal recommendations for starting use. It depends I suppose. When I started playing in 2003 or thereabouts, I kept playing AR games. It was very useful as a newb of dota (had the basics down since I also played WC3) to not feed, because it allowed me to "push the envelope" so to speak, and speed up the learning process for me. That said, when I introduced my sister to dota, I had her play Lich. He is indeed one of the best heroes to start off with. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I don't understand that some people say a new player shouldn't get an easy-to-escape hero, because then you don't learn [not overextending], but in the same breath say Lich is a good hero für beginners, when he has deceptive [laning ability] and [mana management]. If you want to go by easy to use, let new guys play Tide. Spells are easy, he is hard to burst down but can't excape, and if everything goes wrong just write or say "tide ulti" and the player instantly feels useful. TBH, if you have any form of voice communication(skype, teamspeak etc.) I would play Sven/Lina or Skeleking/Leschrac or something similar with new guys. For laning there are crazy many details to learn, but a doublestun lane can always just try to kill the enemies. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On June 07 2013 17:15 Grettin wrote: Insta crashing when i hook. Didn't happen before agha. Dunno if its bug or what. (clock) actually seem to happen everytime you hook on Medusa. actually #2, seems to be medusa ulti that causes the crashing. you could say that ult is game breaking | ||
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sc_a.M
420 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CSQrvld.jpg) had to,.. nice one :3 User was warned for this post | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On June 07 2013 18:08 Mataza wrote: Lich does have too easy mana management, no? I don't understand that some people say a new player shouldn't get an easy-to-escape hero, because then you don't learn [not overextending], but in the same breath say Lich is a good hero für beginners, when he has deceptive [laning ability] and [mana management]. If you want to go by easy to use, let new guys play Tide. Spells are easy, he is hard to burst down but can't excape, and if everything goes wrong just write or say "tide ulti" and the player instantly feels useful. TBH, if you have any form of voice communication(skype, teamspeak etc.) I would play Sven/Lina or Skeleking/Leschrac or something similar with new guys. For laning there are crazy many details to learn, but a doublestun lane can always just try to kill the enemies. Mana management isn't quite the same core mechanic shared by every character that positioning is. And on lich, it still exists - its just really easy to fix. Your ulti costs a lot of mana, as well as your nuke, and your mana pool isn't fantastic (at least compared to the costs of the spells). But every hero needs to know that certain areas of the map are made of lava in order to not feed terribly. Once you have that down, most heroes (outside meepo etc) aren't that much of a stretch to learn. Also, I wouldn't recommend lich to a LoL player. They will have a sort of game sense, but they need to adjust it. Engagement ranges are much larger in DotA, so I recommend that they use a blink dagger hero like tide to kind of learn that. They also need to learn mana management (because spamming spells has been hammered into them), so playing someone other than lich is good. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On June 07 2013 18:08 Mataza wrote: Lich does have too easy mana management, no? I don't understand that some people say a new player shouldn't get an easy-to-escape hero, because then you don't learn [not overextending], but in the same breath say Lich is a good hero für beginners, when he has deceptive [laning ability] and [mana management]. If you want to go by easy to use, let new guys play Tide. Spells are easy, he is hard to burst down but can't excape, and if everything goes wrong just write or say "tide ulti" and the player instantly feels useful. TBH, if you have any form of voice communication(skype, teamspeak etc.) I would play Sven/Lina or Skeleking/Leschrac or something similar with new guys. For laning there are crazy many details to learn, but a doublestun lane can always just try to kill the enemies. I tend to agree with this. Giving a newbie Riki s a bad idea. Because he's either going to be way too easy for the newbie or way too hard depending on how good the opposing team is at getting detection. Having such a good escape mechanism coupled with the ability to prevent other people casting abilities AND perma-invis is just going to teach bad habits. He's doesn't really give a good "general overview" of how DOTA2 plays. Same with Lich. I know he's a popular newbie friendly hero but thats just it...Lich is way different to most heroes because he has an extremely easy time with mana right from the word go. Which teaches extremely bad habits about spell usage, one of the most important things to learn. Not to mention he basically has no teamfight utility after casting his ultimate (at least Tide has slow and is hard to kill so provides a distraction, Lich just gets gibbed) which means there's no real "experiencing teamfights". Personally when I started I did a bit of reading around to see what hero would give me a good overview of how DOTA2 plays and then I decided to mix a bunch of games of Lina in. She has a decent mana pool but you still can't get sloppy with it because your spells WILL drain it quickly. She has a nice range of abililties in one passive, one spell doing straightforward AoE damage, one AoE stun that you have to time and aim and one single-target nuke; this means she covers a lot of the mechanics of the more common spells as well as teaching how to work with spells that are on a casting delay. On top of all of this she has more or less average speed and average HP. She has teamfight utility, ganking utility and the potential for solo kills as well thanks to her high damage spells plus having a stun. She can lane anywhere (with care) and can build in a whole bunch of different ways. Finally she has arguably one of the worst autoattack animations in the game which really forces you to concentrate if trying to last hit. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I learned to last hit with Lina and since then I generally find that within a few minutes I can last hit reasonably well with almost any hero I'm given. | ||
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Mandini
United States1717 Posts
On June 07 2013 19:22 Firebolt145 wrote: It's not like they're only restricted to one hero for their first 10 games; they can play a bit of Lich and a bit of Tide and still have games leftover for other heroes ~ No man, you have to play lich for 50 games, then play lycan for like 200. No other heroes | ||
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