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General Discussion - Page 3026

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 06 2013 20:26 GMT
#60501
Cloak's armor/magic resistance are not removed by Natural Order because they are not base armor or magic resistance.

Base armor/magic resistance only counts the initial armor value + any gained from agility, and the inherent 25% magic resistance every hero has.
Moderator
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
June 06 2013 20:28 GMT
#60502
On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor

wat, but dragon blood armor isn't base armor.
Was something changed or am i missing something? o_o
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 06 2013 20:28 GMT
#60503
And dragon's blood is in another booth then huh? Interesting

Well, I am happy for that; I really want Visage to keep in popularity, I love microing birds and soul assumption / speed stealer abillity are both fun times
In the woods, there lurks..
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 06 2013 20:34 GMT
#60504
On June 07 2013 05:28 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor

wat, but dragon blood armor isn't base armor.
Was something changed or am i missing something? o_o

It isn't, but it doesn't really matter to the issue of DK getting screwed by TC. Losing 9 armor at level 16 and all your magic resist, and not having a good way to avoid being combo-ed because you have no in-fight mobility skill still sucks even if you keep Dragon Blood.
Moderator
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
June 06 2013 20:35 GMT
#60505
On June 07 2013 05:34 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 05:28 Unleashing wrote:
On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor

wat, but dragon blood armor isn't base armor.
Was something changed or am i missing something? o_o

It isn't, but it doesn't really matter to the issue of DK getting screwed by TC. Losing 9 armor at level 16 and all your magic resist, and not having a good way to avoid being combo-ed because you have no in-fight mobility skill still sucks even if you keep Dragon Blood.

I know that, i was just confused by the notion that TC aura would remove all DKs armor.
Last i checked it wasn't base armor, so just wanted to check nothing had changed.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 20:41:39
June 06 2013 20:39 GMT
#60506
On June 07 2013 05:34 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 05:28 Unleashing wrote:
On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor

wat, but dragon blood armor isn't base armor.
Was something changed or am i missing something? o_o

It isn't, but it doesn't really matter to the issue of DK getting screwed by TC. Losing 9 armor at level 16 and all your magic resist, and not having a good way to avoid being combo-ed because you have no in-fight mobility skill still sucks even if you keep Dragon Blood.

Hm, I seem to remember you making a post about how DK's Dragons blood in dota1 was considered base armor, and reduced by natural order (though, im sure in dota2 it doesn't work that way).

Edit: Guess I just misremembered.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 06 2013 20:39 GMT
#60507
No, it's LISTED as base armor (it's added to the white number in the interface) but it doesn't actually behave as base armor for the purpose of Natural Order.
Moderator
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 20:40:44
June 06 2013 20:40 GMT
#60508
wait dk armor isn't base armor?
i think it was base armor in dota1, tbh i'm not really sure though it's been a while
edit: and iirc his illusions got it too
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 20:42:07
June 06 2013 20:41 GMT
#60509
It's weird because the way it's implemented is as a unit upgrade (e.g. +1 armor upgrades for units) rather than as base armor from stats or bonus armor from an item/aura/other effect. So it lists as base armor because it adds to the white armor number, but doesn't get counted in base armor calculations for Natural Order.

And yes, his illusions do get the armor.
Moderator
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
June 06 2013 22:41 GMT
#60510
New pudge is hilarious, seeing them often now in team having 4k hp at 25mins rofl.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
June 06 2013 22:45 GMT
#60511
dk armor in dota1 is displayed as based but it isnt based. Thats what i read on dev forum and apparently the current interaction in dota2 is correct. I was playing TC a lot until this patch. No flying vision is such a buzz, negate all the offlane potential of the hero
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 22:52:16
June 06 2013 22:51 GMT
#60512
On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor

It doesn't. Common misconception. Dragon blood doesn't actually add to base armor.

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=80525&page=2

(For purposes of illusions it might have counted as base, not sure. thread confused everyone)
JeeJee
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Canada5652 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 23:16:57
June 06 2013 23:12 GMT
#60513
On June 06 2013 13:57 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2013 13:27 JeeJee wrote:
On June 06 2013 13:02 eX Killy wrote:
that range display getting taken out is a really good change imo. keeps offlaners guessing and keeps down ld bear micros, max range blinks, among many things.


How are those good things? It's not like there's any skill trying to guess what's a max range blink and what'll get you penalized.
None of this is skill, it's not fun, dota shouldn't be about guessing what your abilities do, it should be knowing it exactly, and making the correct decision. That's the fun part imo. Why did valve add a flashing red orb to puck? Let's have them guessing too!

They didn't add a flashing red orb. DotA 1 illusory orb changes color when its almost max range too.


Perhaps I didn't word it right. There wasn't a flashing orb in dota1 for the longest time -- that was my point. It was added relatively recently, for the express purpose of giving the player better information about how their abilities work. This is especially relevant because orb, like blink, punishes the player. It used to do this with no cue at all.

e: imo, cues are good. It forces the player to pay attention and really learn the ins and outs of their abilities. OD's prison has a visual cue to help teammates. SD's disrupt has an audio cue so that you can time your torrents and LSA's so that antimage/qop will never blink out of chain. etc.

All the 1200 range thing did (for me) was act as a cue for effective blinks and xp leech (especially now with the deny range being increased). I like cues. I hope it comes back, in one way or another
(\o/)  If you want it, you find a way. Otherwise you find excuses. No exceptions.
 /_\   aka Shinbi (requesting a name change since 27/05/09 ☺)
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
June 07 2013 01:01 GMT
#60514
New Huskar Confirmed for hillarious
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
June 07 2013 01:47 GMT
#60515
On June 07 2013 08:12 JeeJee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2013 13:57 TheYango wrote:
On June 06 2013 13:27 JeeJee wrote:
On June 06 2013 13:02 eX Killy wrote:
that range display getting taken out is a really good change imo. keeps offlaners guessing and keeps down ld bear micros, max range blinks, among many things.


How are those good things? It's not like there's any skill trying to guess what's a max range blink and what'll get you penalized.
None of this is skill, it's not fun, dota shouldn't be about guessing what your abilities do, it should be knowing it exactly, and making the correct decision. That's the fun part imo. Why did valve add a flashing red orb to puck? Let's have them guessing too!

They didn't add a flashing red orb. DotA 1 illusory orb changes color when its almost max range too.


Perhaps I didn't word it right. There wasn't a flashing orb in dota1 for the longest time -- that was my point. It was added relatively recently, for the express purpose of giving the player better information about how their abilities work. This is especially relevant because orb, like blink, punishes the player. It used to do this with no cue at all.

e: imo, cues are good. It forces the player to pay attention and really learn the ins and outs of their abilities. OD's prison has a visual cue to help teammates. SD's disrupt has an audio cue so that you can time your torrents and LSA's so that antimage/qop will never blink out of chain. etc.

All the 1200 range thing did (for me) was act as a cue for effective blinks and xp leech (especially now with the deny range being increased). I like cues. I hope it comes back, in one way or another


Except it also gave you an innate unfair advantage against someone who didn't have it. You knew exactly how far out to sit for xp or to skip xp while others had to guess. These are things that honestly you should learn and just kinda guess. You know roughly the range of say a 600 range hero then yous hould be able to double that in your head. Shouldn't rely on a circle to show you where you can go.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-07 01:58:19
June 07 2013 01:57 GMT
#60516
So does Huskar's item build change at all?
Does Skeleton King's ability build change to max his E now or is still max Q and stats?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
June 07 2013 01:59 GMT
#60517
boots urn armlet ghost scepter seems cute now for huskar
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
June 07 2013 02:01 GMT
#60518
BKB is probally not as necessary as before at least. Will depend more on the other team having too many disables or something like an OD I guess. Kinda like for AM.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
June 07 2013 02:04 GMT
#60519
Do you actually max spear now? Or same old 1 point spear max blood then heal then stats?
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
June 07 2013 02:11 GMT
#60520
The buff to it's damage was reasonable, and if you go the ghost scepter route you will be using them, so it's probally worth trying it out at least. Speaking of that, the self damage is HP removal, so it shouldn't be reduced by his magic resistance, correct? Else it would a no-brainer, but I really don't think it works like that.
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