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On June 07 2013 04:22 LeLoup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:16 Comeh wrote:On June 07 2013 04:14 LeLoup wrote:On June 07 2013 03:45 Sn0_Man wrote:
pls nurf morfling 1.6 BAT 2gud
TBH I'd be happy to see a few more minor morphling buffs (preferably to do with his starting stats/dmg lol). I don't like going to lane with 430 hp so that I have a chance at lasthitting (and this is with random gold since I've never actually picked morph, although I suppose its much the same as getting pooled). If you did that he could go back to the do-everything carry that he was for TI2. As much as it sucks, the fact that he could destroy in lane made it so that IF had to nerf that part of him. He still has a really strong midgame (waveform is still really good) but I have yet to see a good/efficient mid-game build for him. "really strong" != decent. He's okay in the midgame (especially considering how early the midgame comes). Better than an AM, as waveform does decent damage. Not "really strong". True, guess it should be "better than the average carry" more than strong. I dunno, I feel like he could work right now, but I'm just not sure what you could do for him without doing a straight buff to his base damage again (which honestly I don't want). His casting animation is already really good (better than before) and his stat gain is decent. Maybe a buff to adaptive strike to give him two good nukes in the midgame? I'm curious as to what you'd like Comeh. EDIT: Right now I like him being strong against low-mobility carries. Personally I've always favored building him along the lines of tranquils --> RoA --> Yasha --> Treads --> Skadi --> Manta/HotD Especially with the Skadi buffs I feel like he's really good with it now.
Something along the lines of 3-6 base damage returned to him (4 seems reasonable) and return the 25 radius to his waveform (this nerf hurt him more than you'd think - you feel it quite a bit in play).
The thing about morphling's laning ability wasn't necessarily his ability to outlast hit other heroes - as a lot of heroes have high base damage or can dominate the lane in this sense just as hard. Overall, morphling still is really, really low range, very low movement speed, normal hp, and has some other vulnerabilities in lane. The main strength that caused him to dominate lanes in TI2 was his ability to attack / cast during waveform. It gave an absurd amount of killing power that was more or less unrivaled. That, coupled with his high base damage, essentially guaranteed kills in lane.
Also, please make Linkens ~200 gold cheaper. 1325 recipe cost is stupid.
Edit: Sn0 and I almost identically agree. Confirmed for icefraud hivemind.
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On June 07 2013 04:35 Klonere wrote:
how long will it take for naix vs gyro to go away
plz say it will go away ;;;;
I'm giving it a week max. Fear mentioned the other day about how hard it was to draft in 6.78 right now since they don't know what heroes to pick OR how to game the new picking system to get a draft they want. Once that settles down I'm sure there will be less of the mentioned heroes (although I still think gyro is quite strong).
PS: DK every game since patch almost o.O
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Netherlands45349 Posts
if anyone needs a buff who I miss its Invoker QW
Force staff, Drums and base damage nerf shafted the hell out of the guy(although TA n stuff also attributed to it)
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On June 07 2013 03:48 Unleashing wrote:Apparently dota2 will have the largest prizepurse During the DHS13 event. http://www.dreamhack.se/dhs13/esport/Really cool, i hope dota keeps seeing that kind of support, and that it pays off for the sponsors.
Cool.
(And so that anyone doesn't get confused, the prize pool for E-Sport Sm is split across 4 different games)
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Fair enough, Invoker could use some love.
I dislike that hero though XD
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On June 07 2013 04:39 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:35 Klonere wrote:
how long will it take for naix vs gyro to go away
plz say it will go away ;;;; I'm giving it a week max. Fear mentioned the other day about how hard it was to draft in 6.78 right now since they don't know what heroes to pick OR how to game the new picking system to get a draft they want. Once that settles down I'm sure there will be less of the mentioned heroes (although I still think gyro is quite strong). PS: DK every game since patch almost o.O
I sure hope so
Alliance picked sniper in scrim vs Mouz ehhe
Also yes, Invoker needs some love, if we are talking iconic, game defining heroes, he's it.
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On June 07 2013 04:39 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:35 Klonere wrote:
how long will it take for naix vs gyro to go away
plz say it will go away ;;;; I'm giving it a week max. Fear mentioned the other day about how hard it was to draft in 6.78 right now since they don't know what heroes to pick OR how to game the new picking system to get a draft they want. Once that settles down I'm sure there will be less of the mentioned heroes (although I still think gyro is quite strong). PS: DK every game since patch almost o.O
On June 02 2013 01:24 Comeh wrote:
Honestly, I'll be surprised if DK (really depends on how much this bottle crow hurts him), Alchemist, and Kunkka (if you consider him one) aren't the top carries of the next patch.
Nostrodamus doto here
+ Show Spoiler + waiting patiently for alchy
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On June 07 2013 04:53 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:39 Sn0_Man wrote:On June 07 2013 04:35 Klonere wrote:
how long will it take for naix vs gyro to go away
plz say it will go away ;;;; I'm giving it a week max. Fear mentioned the other day about how hard it was to draft in 6.78 right now since they don't know what heroes to pick OR how to game the new picking system to get a draft they want. Once that settles down I'm sure there will be less of the mentioned heroes (although I still think gyro is quite strong). PS: DK every game since patch almost o.O Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 01:24 Comeh wrote:
Honestly, I'll be surprised if DK (really depends on how much this bottle crow hurts him), Alchemist, and Kunkka (if you consider him one) aren't the top carries of the next patch. Nostrodamus doto here + Show Spoiler + waiting patiently for alchy
+ Show Spoiler + DK first pick Alch this morning in DSL
visage is still broken though :D
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On June 07 2013 04:37 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:22 LeLoup wrote:On June 07 2013 04:16 Comeh wrote:On June 07 2013 04:14 LeLoup wrote:On June 07 2013 03:45 Sn0_Man wrote:
pls nurf morfling 1.6 BAT 2gud
TBH I'd be happy to see a few more minor morphling buffs (preferably to do with his starting stats/dmg lol). I don't like going to lane with 430 hp so that I have a chance at lasthitting (and this is with random gold since I've never actually picked morph, although I suppose its much the same as getting pooled). If you did that he could go back to the do-everything carry that he was for TI2. As much as it sucks, the fact that he could destroy in lane made it so that IF had to nerf that part of him. He still has a really strong midgame (waveform is still really good) but I have yet to see a good/efficient mid-game build for him. "really strong" != decent. He's okay in the midgame (especially considering how early the midgame comes). Better than an AM, as waveform does decent damage. Not "really strong". True, guess it should be "better than the average carry" more than strong. I dunno, I feel like he could work right now, but I'm just not sure what you could do for him without doing a straight buff to his base damage again (which honestly I don't want). His casting animation is already really good (better than before) and his stat gain is decent. Maybe a buff to adaptive strike to give him two good nukes in the midgame? I'm curious as to what you'd like Comeh. EDIT: Right now I like him being strong against low-mobility carries. Personally I've always favored building him along the lines of tranquils --> RoA --> Yasha --> Treads --> Skadi --> Manta/HotD Especially with the Skadi buffs I feel like he's really good with it now. Something along the lines of 3-6 base damage returned to him (4 seems reasonable) and return the 25 radius to his waveform (this nerf hurt him more than you'd think - you feel it quite a bit in play). The thing about morphling's laning ability wasn't necessarily his ability to outlast hit other heroes - as a lot of heroes have high base damage or can dominate the lane in this sense just as hard. Overall, morphling still is really, really low range, very low movement speed, normal hp, and has some other vulnerabilities in lane. The main strength that caused him to dominate lanes in TI2 was his ability to attack / cast during waveform. It gave an absurd amount of killing power that was more or less unrivaled. That, coupled with his high base damage, essentially guaranteed kills in lane. Also, please make Linkens ~200 gold cheaper. 1325 recipe cost is stupid. Edit: Sn0 and I almost identically agree. Confirmed for icefraud hivemind.
That makes a lot of sense.
I have to say I think you're right on the base damage, with 3 being good enough IMO. However I'm not sure on the waveform thing, IMO as long as it doesn't hit behind Morph I think it would be good and a fairly reasonable change; though personally I think I'd rather see something done with Adaptive Strike than reverting a change to waveform.
I'd love to see teams try him vs Naix now though. Seriously with the buffs he got and the nerfs to Naix, Morph could be really good against him. Especially Skadi Morph (which I think is seriously underrated on him btw).
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Personally I think DK might die down a bit soon but the strength of being able to level ult at 11 and not having to choose right then between EITHER farming OR pushing (until 16 at least) is still quite big.
The thing about DK is that he doesn't inherently do THAT much damage so he is quite stable but I think teams will figure out ways of simply denying the hero relevance.
Whenever I see DK I kinda think "why not beastmaster?". BM comes online much sooner, his stun is kinda just better (although requires level 6 and has a much longer cooldown I guess), his nuke is quite comparable but goes thru BKB, and his boar slow that goes through bkb comes online quite a bit sooner as well. Yes, BM will never be a solid right clicker but DK kinda needs a lot of items to reach that stage as well. BM with that much money in utility items is crazy scary anyways.
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On June 07 2013 04:58 LeLoup wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 04:37 Comeh wrote:On June 07 2013 04:22 LeLoup wrote:On June 07 2013 04:16 Comeh wrote:On June 07 2013 04:14 LeLoup wrote:On June 07 2013 03:45 Sn0_Man wrote:
pls nurf morfling 1.6 BAT 2gud
TBH I'd be happy to see a few more minor morphling buffs (preferably to do with his starting stats/dmg lol). I don't like going to lane with 430 hp so that I have a chance at lasthitting (and this is with random gold since I've never actually picked morph, although I suppose its much the same as getting pooled). If you did that he could go back to the do-everything carry that he was for TI2. As much as it sucks, the fact that he could destroy in lane made it so that IF had to nerf that part of him. He still has a really strong midgame (waveform is still really good) but I have yet to see a good/efficient mid-game build for him. "really strong" != decent. He's okay in the midgame (especially considering how early the midgame comes). Better than an AM, as waveform does decent damage. Not "really strong". True, guess it should be "better than the average carry" more than strong. I dunno, I feel like he could work right now, but I'm just not sure what you could do for him without doing a straight buff to his base damage again (which honestly I don't want). His casting animation is already really good (better than before) and his stat gain is decent. Maybe a buff to adaptive strike to give him two good nukes in the midgame? I'm curious as to what you'd like Comeh. EDIT: Right now I like him being strong against low-mobility carries. Personally I've always favored building him along the lines of tranquils --> RoA --> Yasha --> Treads --> Skadi --> Manta/HotD Especially with the Skadi buffs I feel like he's really good with it now. Something along the lines of 3-6 base damage returned to him (4 seems reasonable) and return the 25 radius to his waveform (this nerf hurt him more than you'd think - you feel it quite a bit in play). The thing about morphling's laning ability wasn't necessarily his ability to outlast hit other heroes - as a lot of heroes have high base damage or can dominate the lane in this sense just as hard. Overall, morphling still is really, really low range, very low movement speed, normal hp, and has some other vulnerabilities in lane. The main strength that caused him to dominate lanes in TI2 was his ability to attack / cast during waveform. It gave an absurd amount of killing power that was more or less unrivaled. That, coupled with his high base damage, essentially guaranteed kills in lane. Also, please make Linkens ~200 gold cheaper. 1325 recipe cost is stupid. Edit: Sn0 and I almost identically agree. Confirmed for icefraud hivemind. That makes a lot of sense. I have to say I think you're right on the base damage, with 3 being good enough IMO. However I'm not sure on the waveform thing, IMO as long as it doesn't hit behind Morph I think it would be good and a fairly reasonable change; though personally I think I'd rather see something done with Adaptive Strike than reverting a change to waveform. I'd love to see teams try him vs Naix now though. Seriously with the buffs he got and the nerfs to Naix, Morph could be really good against him. Especially Skadi Morph (which I think is seriously underrated on him btw).
Actually, until Morph gets a skadi, Lifestealer fairs okay against morph (low movement speed, low right click damage until post 30 mins, has to use waveform to kite, replicant is eh, high stats so feast does a lot of damage, has a weak earlyish / midgame when Naix is peaking - so he is less effective during naix's most effective times...) I mean, he's good as the game goes late against naix, but a lot of carries are as well.
If you want a hero who is secretly good against Naix, is rarely picked, but received a nice buff in 6.78, look at naga.
Illusion hero, net goes through bkb and lasts forever, minus armor is really effective against naix, can even use song during rage to focus him down. I'm kind of curious if we'll see more situational nagas or not (DD showed it can be okay, but not great against tricore carry lineups when you dont dominate lanes)
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United States47024 Posts
On June 07 2013 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
Personally I think DK might die down a bit soon but the strength of being able to level ult at 11 and not having to choose right then between EITHER farming OR pushing (until 16 at least) is still quite big.
The thing about DK is that he doesn't inherently do THAT much damage so he is quite stable but I think teams will figure out ways of simply denying the hero relevance.
Whenever I see DK I kinda think "why not beastmaster?". BM comes online much sooner, his stun is kinda just better (although requires level 6 and has a much longer cooldown I guess), his nuke is quite comparable but goes thru BKB, and his boar slow that goes through bkb comes online quite a bit sooner as well. Yes, BM will never be a solid right clicker but DK kinda needs a lot of items to reach that stage as well. BM with that much money in utility items is crazy scary anyways.
DK is also a faster pusher, and, as you mentioned, is a stronger lategame hero. He also has higher inherent survivability due to having higher Strength gain and Dragon's Blood.
Also, DK has 0 cast animation, which is really good.
That said, DK's going to die down a lot when Tauren Chieftain gets added to -CM.
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Its funny how naga's ulti doesn't go through BKB but its secretly a BKB counter anyways because you get to focus down the magic immune guys while their teammates sleep.
That's totally apart from net which is not-so-secretly also an excellent BKB counter.
I think support/utility siren is better than farm siren these days, but I could be wrong. Illusions with diffusal is still a stupid amount of damage.
PS: I'd like to see teams use a support naga to stack the whole jungle with illusions starting very early.
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^I also thought, that DKs popularity will fall off, since bottlecrow was nerfed and he's pretty reliant on that at least in my book, but since the patch is live, teams have picked him up even more. Level2 EDF not being trash maybe was, what he needed all the time. Well, I am enjoying DK, not because I find the playstyle he brings particularly entertaining, but simply because I love the hero and his theme.
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On June 07 2013 05:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
Personally I think DK might die down a bit soon but the strength of being able to level ult at 11 and not having to choose right then between EITHER farming OR pushing (until 16 at least) is still quite big.
The thing about DK is that he doesn't inherently do THAT much damage so he is quite stable but I think teams will figure out ways of simply denying the hero relevance.
Whenever I see DK I kinda think "why not beastmaster?". BM comes online much sooner, his stun is kinda just better (although requires level 6 and has a much longer cooldown I guess), his nuke is quite comparable but goes thru BKB, and his boar slow that goes through bkb comes online quite a bit sooner as well. Yes, BM will never be a solid right clicker but DK kinda needs a lot of items to reach that stage as well. BM with that much money in utility items is crazy scary anyways. DK is also a faster pusher, and, as you mentioned, is a stronger lategame hero. He also has higher inherent survivability due to having higher Strength Gain and Dragon's Blood. Also, DK has 0 cast animation, which is really good. That said, DK's going to die down a lot when Tauren Chieftain gets added to -CM.
Hm, why do you think TC will deter DK from being picked? They seem like very different heroes that fulfill different roles to me.
I could write more about DK, but not sure there is a lot of interest. Essentially he's picked a lot because he's an okay laner (stronger with bottle crow), allows a lot of pushing / early towers / frees up the map, and allows for dual core set ups because hes really solid in numerous stages of the game and can lane in the mid lane.
Him and Beastmaster are two very different heroes.
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tc's passive removes all of dk's armor
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On June 07 2013 05:14 Dead9 wrote:
tc's passive removes all of dk's armor
Oh, Duh. Forgot about that weird interaction with Dragons Blood.
Very quirky.
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United States47024 Posts
TC as a hero just crushes low-mobility carries that are reliant on their survivability for in-fight stay-ability. This is not exclusive to DK, but DK was the most popular carry when TC became popular in China in 6.73/6.74 who was susceptible to this (Anti-mage and Morphling had enough mobility to avoid the aura, and Naga and Lycan didn't make it through bans often enough for it to matter).
In the current game, Gyro and Luna are they type of heroes who will have a hard time dealing with him (what do you do in a fight as Gyro when TC suddenly drops you to zero armor?).
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Its OK mappo best TC counter, still 13.5% magic resist after aura.
EDIT: wouldn't lycan still do fine against TC? I'd guess he runs fast enough to avoid TC's stomp/aura pretty well but I suppose I dont' really know that for a fact. TC as a hero still weirds me out a bit.
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On June 07 2013 05:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 05:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
Personally I think DK might die down a bit soon but the strength of being able to level ult at 11 and not having to choose right then between EITHER farming OR pushing (until 16 at least) is still quite big.
The thing about DK is that he doesn't inherently do THAT much damage so he is quite stable but I think teams will figure out ways of simply denying the hero relevance.
Whenever I see DK I kinda think "why not beastmaster?". BM comes online much sooner, his stun is kinda just better (although requires level 6 and has a much longer cooldown I guess), his nuke is quite comparable but goes thru BKB, and his boar slow that goes through bkb comes online quite a bit sooner as well. Yes, BM will never be a solid right clicker but DK kinda needs a lot of items to reach that stage as well. BM with that much money in utility items is crazy scary anyways. DK is also a faster pusher, and, as you mentioned, is a stronger lategame hero. He also has higher inherent survivability due to having higher Strength gain and Dragon's Blood. Also, DK has 0 cast animation, which is really good. That said, DK's going to die down a lot when Tauren Chieftain gets added to -CM.
How hard does TC hit Visage though? (considering gravekeepers cloak)
is it noticeable at all since visage isn't really frontline ranged ala DK but I wonder..
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EPT
