EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 3020
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
On June 06 2013 14:40 yyfpulls wrote: Who cares if it's not in Dota1? I think it's time to stop saying blah blah not in Dota1. Making the game friendlier to players take away nothing from the complexities of the game. That is one thing Dota2 can learn from LoL. It's like when Blizzard added auto mining at the start and worker counts in HotS. People whined for a bit but realized it wasn't a big deal. Does it take away from the game's depth? No. But it sures as hell makes it easier for beginners to get into the game. Granted, dota_range_display wasn't fair as only people that knew about it got the edge up. I think they should make it like LoL where the range displays when you click on a click or hold down a skill. Dota2 will never catch up to LoL numbers if it holds onto old thinking. I agreed with auto-mining from the start so everyone starts out with a equal start. But worker count. Many people disagreed. Simply because knowing how much worker to produce by boxing your worker count is a skill. Putting in the worker count dampens it. And don't bait by bringing up the LoL comparison. Don't bring up the numbers game. The last thing we ever need is making Dota 2 more similar to LoL. So screw that. Range display was unfair because some people know how to use it and some people doesn't. Icefrog removed it so that everybody play on an even field. And you can still use it in practice against bots with cheat. So I don't see the problem. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Most of the "abuse" cases for range display were things that cannot actually be displayed any other way, and IMO have no business being displayed--e.g. precisely knowing the max range for being able to get XP. The only quip I have is that "dota_disable_range_finder" is automatically set to 1, so most players don't actually know about it/use it. | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
If anything "dota_disable_range_finder" tells a player more information than anything! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On June 06 2013 16:03 Fwizzz wrote: Never thought that there will be a big fuss about removing range finder. Don't know whats the big deal of it. because being able to see stuff like blink range,druid bear control radius,orb distance,etc etc is incredibly useful. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10953 Posts
Btw: Tryed the "loda" PA build... It's tons of fun not having to farm around for 20+ mins  .Btw2: Played 2 games yesterday, no Huskars . | ||
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 06 2013 18:43 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why they buffed lich to 10 bounces. Okay, he's not necessarily an OP hero, but he's really good at low levels where teams don't have good positioning. If they wanted to make him more viable where he's weaker (at higher levels) then you'd think they'd buff something besides his ult. At first I thought the buff was really huge, but then thinking about it, getting 7 bounces in itself is really difficult at high levels of play. Just seems like a dumb and a not so well thought out buff. Instead they could've buffed the ult projectile speed. If you haven't noticed the trend yet: Icefrog isn't buffing heroes where they are weak. Thats the fastest way to make the heroes generic and closer to each other. Instead he's buffing them where they're strong, to outweigh the fact that they are weak somewhere else. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10953 Posts
Higher projectile speed would just make it a boring ultimate.. The whole point/fun of the ult is that it's ridiculously strong but "easy" to dodge... With fast projectiles it would just be a bit like the Crystal Maiden Ult on roids... But a serious Buff to lich would be some alteration/added benefit to Frost Armor... It's imho just a bad buff compared to empower, bloodlust or the various auras. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On June 06 2013 19:00 Excludos wrote: If you haven't noticed the trend yet: Icefrog isn't buffing heroes where they are weak. Thats the fastest way to make the heroes generic and closer to each other. Instead he's buffing them where they're strong, to outweigh the fact that they are weak somewhere else. Which is fine in theory, but many of them, like the lich ult, are done in such a way as to have absolutely no effect. They're win-more mechanics. If there is a fight in which lich gets 7 bounces, that fight is won. The additional 3 are totally superfluous. Playing to a hero's strengths is fine, but playing to a hero's strengths in specific situations where that strength is already dominant is not necessarily the best idea. Not because it makes them OP, but because it doesn't, in fact, change much at all. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 06 2013 19:09 Belisarius wrote: Which is fine in theory, but many of them, like the lich ult, are done in such a way as to have absolutely no effect. They're win-more mechanics. If there is a fight in which lich gets 7 bounces, that fight is won. The additional 3 are totally superfluous. Playing to a hero's strengths is fine, but playing to a hero's strengths in specific situations where that strength is already dominant is not necessarily the best idea. Not because it makes them OP, but because it doesn't, in fact, change much at all. It gives him more situations he can use them. If 7 clean bounces is what won you that teamfight last time, now you'll win the same teamfight if you do it around 3 creeps. | ||
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renfree
4485 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On June 06 2013 19:06 Velr wrote: More bounces = more viabilty in a teamfight-centric lineup = higher chance to get picked. On it's own it's still a "weakish" ult.. But combined with some wtf-aecombo (Darkseer/RP/Blackhole) it's a serious problem... Higher projectile speed would just make it a boring ultimate.. The whole point/fun of the ult is that it's ridiculously strong but "easy" to dodge... With fast projectiles it would just be a bit like the Crystal Maiden Ult on roids... But a serious Buff to lich would be some alteration/added benefit to Frost Armor... It's imho just a bad buff compared to empower, bloodlust or the various auras. Uh, my WHOLE point was that even with team fight centric heroes you're gonna have a hard time getting 7 bounces on any decent team. And frost armor is weak? You think 9 armor on a 5 second cooldown that slows movement speed and attack speed is weak? Obviously there's some strong auras in the game, but it is anything but weak. Lich's biggest problem is his ult's initial travel time. Even if you get a good vacuum with a decent stun follow up it makes it really easy to prepare for and position for. By the time it reaches you everyone should be able to run in the right direction. I also hate the idea of trying to buff heroes through agh's buff. I think it's suitable for 2 position and maybe 3 position heroes, but for heroes that play 4 or 5? Why can't we think of better options besides item buffs? Is it inherently a better solution to have it so a farmed X hero is strong while the not so farmed same hero is not? I guess it promotes these heroes to be played more in the semi carry role, but personally I say there's enough 2 positions already, and the role that usually needs 2 of each game needs more viable heroes. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 06 2013 19:20 Itsmedudeman wrote: Uh, my WHOLE point was that even with team fight centric heroes you're gonna have a hard time getting 7 bounces on any decent team. And frost armor is weak? You think 9 armor on a 5 second cooldown that slows movement speed and attack speed is weak? Obviously there's some strong auras in the game, but it is anything but weak. Lich's biggest problem is his ult's initial travel time. Even if you get a good vacuum with a decent stun follow up it makes it really easy to prepare for and position for. By the time it reaches you everyone should be able to run in the right direction. Not if they have a magnus, enigma, tidehunter, or any of the other big ulti aoe stun spells in the game. Like I said, more bounces gives him more situations in which his ulti is good, as opposed to buffing another spell which just makes him good all the time. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 06 2013 19:19 renfree wrote: AA's ult is currently bugged - debuff cannot be removed by anything, including Manta or BKB. So broken, especially if he has Aghanims. Fairly certain that was never possible before the patch either. Yeah, its really powerful if you get aghanims on AA..now go try to get an Aghanims on AA... | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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