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United States19229 Posts
On May 31 2013 08:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 31 2013 06:26 PrinceXizor wrote:
Aghanims Omniknight. gonna be huge. medusa is also gonna be used once she's back in CM> Forget that, aghanim's DOOM is gonna be fucking insane. Here's the doom build - phase > drums > aghs > shadowblade > sange and yasha > eul's > refresher. RACECAR DOOM I think Aghanims Omniknight and a treant allows a team to just hold until their carry is up and running. good luck raxing vs 2 glyphs and overgrowth.
I think using your ultimate as omniknight as a glyph would be a huge waste. After it's down then teams will just fight you and you lose. A 2 position omni would be interesting though.
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Like only way for omni ult to be useful as a global is if he can use it actually during the laning stage.Later on it kinda becomes more and more redundant since you are pretty much grouped all the time.idk I think omni buff is one of the more useless ones this patch
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On May 31 2013 08:26 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 08:16 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 31 2013 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 31 2013 06:26 PrinceXizor wrote:
Aghanims Omniknight. gonna be huge. medusa is also gonna be used once she's back in CM> Forget that, aghanim's DOOM is gonna be fucking insane. Here's the doom build - phase > drums > aghs > shadowblade > sange and yasha > eul's > refresher. RACECAR DOOM I think Aghanims Omniknight and a treant allows a team to just hold until their carry is up and running. good luck raxing vs 2 glyphs and overgrowth. I think using your ultimate as omniknight as a glyph would be a huge waste. After it's down then teams will just fight you and you lose. A 2 position omni would be interesting though.
presumably you'd glyph the first one, then next wave repel your treant, and treant goes up and overgrowths, they have to BKB and if they fight, they have to fight through Guardian angel meaning they can't deal physical damage and half the magic damage gets healed back and their BKB wears off as your ult does, which means they can't ignore the team to go for tower, they can't do anything but nuke down the team. if they just run away after the GA, treant gets his overgrowth about the same time as they get their bkbs up, and they don't want to rax without bkbs.
On May 31 2013 08:28 TheKefka wrote:
Like only way for omni ult to be useful as a global is if he can use it actually during the laning stage.Later on it kinda becomes more and more redundant since you are pretty much grouped all the time.idk I think omni buff is one of the more useless ones this patch
It's phenomenal to help escape from smoke ganks or wisp ganks.
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I doubt he'd be very good as a 2 with the nerf to bottle crowing.
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The issue is you are spending a huge amount of money for that extra protection and it doesn't help you at all in actual teamfights. In a vacuum it feels like a good ability, but in practice I think spending that money in a better item would be better. It's like Gyro's, sure it feels good to be able to use it anywhere in the map, but it's just not worth the money. A Sheepstick would be more useful.
If it also improved the skill maybe it would be possible, but I don't see players grabbing it just for the global component.
On May 31 2013 08:30 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 08:26 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 31 2013 08:16 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 31 2013 07:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 31 2013 06:26 PrinceXizor wrote:
Aghanims Omniknight. gonna be huge. medusa is also gonna be used once she's back in CM> Forget that, aghanim's DOOM is gonna be fucking insane. Here's the doom build - phase > drums > aghs > shadowblade > sange and yasha > eul's > refresher. RACECAR DOOM I think Aghanims Omniknight and a treant allows a team to just hold until their carry is up and running. good luck raxing vs 2 glyphs and overgrowth. I think using your ultimate as omniknight as a glyph would be a huge waste. After it's down then teams will just fight you and you lose. A 2 position omni would be interesting though. presumably you'd glyph the first one, then next wave repel your treant, and treant goes up and overgrowths, they have to BKB and if they fight, they have to fight through Guardian angel meaning they can't deal physical damage and half the magic damage gets healed back and their BKB wears off as your ult does, which means they can't ignore the team to go for tower, they can't do anything but nuke down the team. if they just run away after the GA, treant gets his overgrowth about the same time as they get their bkbs up, and they don't want to rax without bkbs. Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 08:28 TheKefka wrote:
Like only way for omni ult to be useful as a global is if he can use it actually during the laning stage.Later on it kinda becomes more and more redundant since you are pretty much grouped all the time.idk I think omni buff is one of the more useless ones this patch It's phenomenal to help escape from smoke ganks or wisp ganks.
In this specific scenario (trent + omni) you have absolutelly no damage. Your mid does no damage and one of your supports does no damage, so you are relying on your carry getting absolutelly huge and winning the teamfight by himself. Tree makes much more sense with high impact teamfight mid heroes like QoP for this reason.
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On May 31 2013 09:01 SKC wrote:
The issue is you are spending a huge amount of money for that extra protection and it doesn't help you at all in actual teamfights. In a vacuum it feels like a good ability, but in practice I think spending that money in a better item would be better. It's like Gyro's, sure it feels good to be able to use it anywhere in the map, but it's just not worth the money. A Sheepstick would be more useful.
If it also improved the skill maybe it would be possible, but I don't see players grabbing it just for the global component.
global + building targetting.
a sheep is alright, but on a defensive team i'd rather have the aghs than the sheep. and i don't see a team putting omni in position to farm a sheep and playing a super aggressive playstyle.
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United States47024 Posts
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things.
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On May 31 2013 09:01 SKC wrote:
In this specific scenario (trent + omni) you have absolutelly no damage. Your mid does no damage and one of your supports does no damage, so you are relying on your carry getting absolutelly huge and winning the teamfight by himself. Tree makes much more sense with high impact teamfight mid heroes like QoP for this reason.
QOP can play 3 position as well as 2. and the goal of the team would be to protect a strong carry anyway. saying that omni/treant doesn't deal damage and you can't with teamfights is pretty disingenuous to the truth. It's somewhat Magnus or panda effects on team fights, he does minimal damage in comparison to other mids, but allows your carry to deal more damage (repel/empower), have a strong nuke (purification/shockwave/clap) and can prevent the enemy from escaping a good engage (degen aura/skewer) and have ultis that can win fights when timed well. Panda does more damage, but has less protective capabilities so that's the trade off there.
You have 3 positions to have stronger damage for your team, your carry is going to be a good later game carry. Gyro/luna/medusa/antimage/spectre. and pretty much all of those 1 positions have really strong team fighting as of .78, Then you have the ridiculous defensive and protective capabilities of treant and omniknight, and that carry player is probably not going to go down any time early in the fight because treant/omni negates all physical damage for 13 seconds if the enemy doesn't bkb/bkbs pre fight. and 85% of physical damage for 13 seconds if the enemy bkbs out of overgrowth.
Then your support can be any of the numerous high damage supports with a disable, and you have an offlane or second support depending on where you put treant and what you plan on doing for even more damage/teamfight.
It's definitely functional as a team in terms of how things will work out. its just a matter of being able to lane well with omni. but treant can definitely remove that hurdle.
On May 31 2013 09:15 TheYango wrote:
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things.
yeah, but realistically there is plenty of stuff to add on after aghs+boots gold wise. and no one is saying you can't transfer farm off the omni post aghs boots
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ffs double post not edit.
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On May 31 2013 09:15 TheYango wrote:
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things.
SnY and Atos man. Get them slows with degen aura mixed in.
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On May 31 2013 09:22 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:15 TheYango wrote:
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things. SnY and Atos man. Get them slows with degen aura mixed in.
Where the fuck is the skadi guys.
Skadi was made for him.
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My Omni build was Skadi + SnY + Basher + Shiva's. If you manage to hit an enemy he is not moving.
I'll just say that starting your post by saying that QoP can go offlane just as well as she can go mid is not very promissing. She is far, far, far better at mid and basically unplayable in the offlane in pro games.
On May 31 2013 09:25 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:22 Numy wrote:On May 31 2013 09:15 TheYango wrote:
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things. SnY and Atos man. Get them slows with degen aura mixed in. Where the fuck is the skadi guys. Skadi was made for him.
This guy knows his shit
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On May 31 2013 09:25 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:22 Numy wrote:On May 31 2013 09:15 TheYango wrote:
Realistically if you get farm on Omni you get shit like Necro, Shiva's, S&Y, Heart, AC and kill things. SnY and Atos man. Get them slows with degen aura mixed in. Where the fuck is the skadi guys. Skadi was made for him.
Shit son forgot about the all mighty Eye.
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On May 31 2013 09:25 SKC wrote:
My Omni build was Skadi + SnY + Basher + Shiva's. If you manage to hit an enemy he is not moving.
I'll just say that starting your post by saying that QoP can go offlane just as well as she can go mid is not very promissing. She is far, far, far better at mid and basically unplayable in the offlane in pro games.
And i'll just say that ending your post by saying i said something i really didn't say isn't exactly a way to have a convesation.
maybe you should stop saying that QOP is best as a 5 position
see? it doesn't actually help anything.
QOP playing 3 position instead of 2 isn't actually bad, and pro teams have done this for a while, well i guess the chinese have done it far more than the west. a safe lane solo QOP isn't really bad. so i don't know what you are talking about. yeah she's strong mid, but she's not unplayable at 3 instead of 2. thats ridiculous
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On May 31 2013 09:28 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:25 SKC wrote:
My Omni build was Skadi + SnY + Basher + Shiva's. If you manage to hit an enemy he is not moving.
I'll just say that starting your post by saying that QoP can go offlane just as well as she can go mid is not very promissing. She is far, far, far better at mid and basically unplayable in the offlane in pro games.
And i'll just say that ending your post by saying i said something i really didn't say isn't exactly a way to have a convesation. maybe you should stop saying that QOP is best as a 5 position see? it doesn't actually help anything.
"QOP can play 3 position as well as 2."
That's what you said. Maybe you don't mean position 3 as offlane, but position 3 is ussually offlane. And I'm not sure where you would put her with an omni in mid and a defensive trilane with tree.
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On May 31 2013 09:28 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:25 SKC wrote:
My Omni build was Skadi + SnY + Basher + Shiva's. If you manage to hit an enemy he is not moving.
I'll just say that starting your post by saying that QoP can go offlane just as well as she can go mid is not very promissing. She is far, far, far better at mid and basically unplayable in the offlane in pro games.
And i'll just say that ending your post by saying i said something i really didn't say isn't exactly a way to have a convesation. maybe you should stop saying that QOP is best as a 5 position see? it doesn't actually help anything. QOP playing 3 position instead of 2 isn't actually bad, and pro teams have done this for a while, well i guess the chinese have done it far more than the west. a safe lane solo QOP isn't really bad. so i don't know what you are talking about. yeah she's strong mid, but she's not unplayable at 3 instead of 2. thats ridiculous
You have an offensive trilane with a tree if you solo safelane her. That's a very hopeful offensive trilane.
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On May 31 2013 09:30 SKC wrote:
"QOP can play 3 position as well as 2."
That's what you said. Maybe you don't mean position 3 as offlane, but position 3 is ussually offlane. And I'm not sure where you would put her with an omni in mid and a defensive trilane with tree.
i did say that. i did NOT say offlane. see the above edit where i explain.
also, Omni being 2 position also doesn't necessarily mean mid, though he's alright mid especially with a tree. you can run a 2 position with safe lane farm on radiant as well.
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On May 31 2013 09:31 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 31 2013 09:25 SKC wrote:
My Omni build was Skadi + SnY + Basher + Shiva's. If you manage to hit an enemy he is not moving.
I'll just say that starting your post by saying that QoP can go offlane just as well as she can go mid is not very promissing. She is far, far, far better at mid and basically unplayable in the offlane in pro games.
And i'll just say that ending your post by saying i said something i really didn't say isn't exactly a way to have a convesation. maybe you should stop saying that QOP is best as a 5 position see? it doesn't actually help anything. QOP playing 3 position instead of 2 isn't actually bad, and pro teams have done this for a while, well i guess the chinese have done it far more than the west. a safe lane solo QOP isn't really bad. so i don't know what you are talking about. yeah she's strong mid, but she's not unplayable at 3 instead of 2. thats ridiculous You have an offensive trilane with a tree if you solo safelane her. That's a very hopeful offensive trilane.
Treant lina/venge/jakiro gyro isn't too bad at all. Just because treant is in a tri lane doesn't doom it to failure. you have a very narrow jaded view of dota.
EDIT: gonna stop posting for tonight, second time i've double posted by mistake. *sigh*
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On May 31 2013 09:33 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:30 SKC wrote:
"QOP can play 3 position as well as 2."
That's what you said. Maybe you don't mean position 3 as offlane, but position 3 is ussually offlane. And I'm not sure where you would put her with an omni in mid and a defensive trilane with tree. i did say that. i did NOT say offlane. see the above edit where i explain. also, Omni being 2 position also doesn't necessarily mean mid, though he's alright mid especially with a tree. you can run a 2 position with safe lane farm on radiant as well.
I would still like to know your proposed Treant offensive trilane though.
Trent, lina, Gyro is not a very good trilane. And since you are on the offensive you can't lose it. Specially since your mid is not winning, he should be losing or breaking even as an omni.
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On May 31 2013 09:35 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 09:33 PrinceXizor wrote:On May 31 2013 09:30 SKC wrote:
"QOP can play 3 position as well as 2."
That's what you said. Maybe you don't mean position 3 as offlane, but position 3 is ussually offlane. And I'm not sure where you would put her with an omni in mid and a defensive trilane with tree. i did say that. i did NOT say offlane. see the above edit where i explain. also, Omni being 2 position also doesn't necessarily mean mid, though he's alright mid especially with a tree. you can run a 2 position with safe lane farm on radiant as well. I would still like to know your proposed Treant offensive trilane though. Trent, lina, Gyro. Is not a very good trilane.
Says who? lina/jakiro/venge all can provide really strong support to treant/gyro, especially when you consider you are running QOP in the safe lane on radiant. lina can control the tree line and treant can help pull the hard camp, treants slow helps set up LSA and you can't exactly outpower leech seed and living armor in the woods. under tower gyro and tree can get good damage off on the tower wave after wave using living armor and lina to control pulls/supports. Jakiro can bully supports very well and help get a tower down very quickly. venge/treant/gyro is actually incredibly adept at getting kills.
All three of those tri lanes on radiant are pretty decent. they are all pretty crappy on dire though.
its also pretty hard to lose as omni mid with a treant on your team. omni will break even or win if he out plays or qop grabs a haste bot or some such. and with the control that treant + venge/lina have they can roam mid occasionally as well. You need to have good teamwork and players, but i'm not talking about pub games.
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EPT
