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On May 10 2013 13:49 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 12:43 r_con wrote:
playing to win is now frowned upon in the dota community, picking strong heroes is a bad thing, and makes you a bad player... whats? do not understand.... What's not to understand? The game at the pro level and the pub level are completely different games. Playing ALL PICK like it's CAPTAINS MODE breaks the game. Playing to win is good. Playing to win at all costs by picking compositions that are stupidly OP out of CM is tryhard. When you queue for ALL PICK, you're signing an implicit social contract that 'all' heroes can be picked. Picking the strong ones all the time is breaking this contract, and is a dick thing to do. Now if you're in Very High, then have at it, I'd expect it in that bracket. For everyone else, 'tryhard' is a valid criticism.
No. No. I'm pretty sure tryhard is a stupid criticism
When you queue for ALL PICK, you're signing an implicit social contract that ALL heroes can be picked. Saying that someone can't pick strong ones all the time is breaking that contract, and is a dick thing to say -.- People can play whatever they like in all pick. If they enjoy playing that hero, there's no reason they shouldn't play it, after all, AP is just for fun.
If you don't like all pick, there's plenty of other modes where you'll almost never see a PL or whatever 'op' hero is botherin you
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I always thank people for the compliment if they use tryhard against me. It shows I did something right in the game.
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Well guys, i don't know where to post it, but do you know anything about following problem - when i'm trying to open players ingame profile, it says:
Error: failed to retrieve profile data.
Can anyone help on how to fix it? Restarting Steam/Dota doesn't help, it started yesterday, so not update related either. Devs forums says nothing on this problem, and the only related thread has no replies. Help!
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United States47024 Posts
The way I've always interpreted the term "tryhard" is someone that wants to win so badly that they'll put winning before improving at the game. So someone who, say, instapicks Nyx every game rather than learning different heroes/etc. It's not something I'd get mad at someone for, because I can't really be angry at how someone else finds enjoyment in this game, but I do think it's pitiable that someone would stunt their own improvement just for the sake of winning one game.
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A tryhard is someone who writes down the ravage cooldown time. People who pick pubstompers like Nyx or pl, are just assholes who want to feel the joy of winning.
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On May 10 2013 13:58 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 13:49 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On May 10 2013 12:43 r_con wrote:
playing to win is now frowned upon in the dota community, picking strong heroes is a bad thing, and makes you a bad player... whats? do not understand.... What's not to understand? The game at the pro level and the pub level are completely different games. Playing ALL PICK like it's CAPTAINS MODE breaks the game. Playing to win is good. Playing to win at all costs by picking compositions that are stupidly OP out of CM is tryhard. When you queue for ALL PICK, you're signing an implicit social contract that 'all' heroes can be picked. Picking the strong ones all the time is breaking this contract, and is a dick thing to do. Now if you're in Very High, then have at it, I'd expect it in that bracket. For everyone else, 'tryhard' is a valid criticism. No. No. I'm pretty sure tryhard is a stupid criticism When you queue for ALL PICK, you're signing an implicit social contract that ALL heroes can be picked. Saying that someone can't pick strong ones all the time is breaking that contract, and is a dick thing to say -.- People can play whatever they like in all pick. If they enjoy playing that hero, there's no reason they shouldn't play it, after all, AP is just for fun. If you don't like all pick, there's plenty of other modes where you'll almost never see a PL or whatever 'op' hero is botherin you
You like playing Nyx for fun? Go ahead. Got nothing against that whatsoever. The tryhard comment isn't really aimed at you.
But I think you'll have a hard time arguing that some heroes over representation in pubs is because they are 'fun' to play, and not just powerful.
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On May 10 2013 14:38 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
A tryhard is someone who writes down the ravage cooldown time. People who pick pubstompers like Nyx or pl, are just assholes who want to feel the joy of winning.
So... EternalEnvy?
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On May 10 2013 14:38 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
A tryhard is someone who writes down the ravage cooldown time. People who pick pubstompers like Nyx or pl, are just assholes who want to feel the joy of winning.
Real tryhards write down the CD on shadow poison.
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How to find out what bracket you are in:
1. Get a friend;
2. Find match;
3. Pick Dark Seer and Clinkz/BH;
4. Lane together;
5. Pop Ion Shell on said Clinkz/BH;
6. Clinkz/BH go invisible and move command the enemy;
7. Interpret results as following based on enemy reactions:
7a. They stand and die: Congratulations! You are in the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7b. They go back to their tower: Congratulations! You are SLIGHTLY above the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7c. They buy sentries and laugh at your double melee lane: Congratulations! You are facing people who think! Now use your PRO 1337 SKILLZ to win game!
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United States47024 Posts
On May 10 2013 14:47 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 14:38 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
A tryhard is someone who writes down the ravage cooldown time. People who pick pubstompers like Nyx or pl, are just assholes who want to feel the joy of winning. So... EternalEnvy?
Real tryhard are people who get their supports to pool them a Bottle.
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On May 10 2013 15:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 14:47 Skullflower wrote:On May 10 2013 14:38 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
A tryhard is someone who writes down the ravage cooldown time. People who pick pubstompers like Nyx or pl, are just assholes who want to feel the joy of winning. So... EternalEnvy? Real tryhard are people who get their supports to pool them a Bottle.
That was standard Empath play in HoN...
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what the hell i got a taunt from the mushroom chest ROFL
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On May 10 2013 15:06 akatama wrote:
How to find out what bracket you are in:
1. Get a friend;
2. Find match;
3. Pick Dark Seer and Clinkz/BH;
4. Lane together;
5. Pop Ion Shell on said Clinkz/BH;
6. Clinkz/BH go invisible and move command the enemy;
7. Interpret results as following based on enemy reactions:
7a. They stand and die: Congratulations! You are in the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7b. They go back to their tower: Congratulations! You are SLIGHTLY above the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7c. They buy sentries and laugh at your double melee lane: Congratulations! You are facing people who think! Now use your PRO 1337 SKILLZ to win game!
I often tell people to do brood darkseer.... because they dont have to care about mana to go invisible =))))
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On May 10 2013 10:49 run.at.me wrote:
I'm sorry but there are definitely try hards in dota - while the game is competitive, it's also just a game - yet you see the nerds picking the ez nub heroes like nyx (seriously.. you don't pick nyx unless your a try hard noob)
They are labelled try hards because it is the equivalent of cheese in sc2.. Strategies that are much harder to counter than to execute.
While cheese in sc2 was generally accepted, nobody liked versing it and nobody respected it.
I don't cry when I see noob picks, but I definitely think you're bad
yeah will just put this here
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
ps. I dont even like the guy but he bring some valid points
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On May 10 2013 15:20 FinestHour wrote:
what the hell i got a taunt from the mushroom chest ROFL
I'm going to air guitar the shit out people as furion when I first blood em.
edit: jk, servers busted.
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On May 10 2013 15:31 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 10:49 run.at.me wrote:
I'm sorry but there are definitely try hards in dota - while the game is competitive, it's also just a game - yet you see the nerds picking the ez nub heroes like nyx (seriously.. you don't pick nyx unless your a try hard noob)
They are labelled try hards because it is the equivalent of cheese in sc2.. Strategies that are much harder to counter than to execute.
While cheese in sc2 was generally accepted, nobody liked versing it and nobody respected it.
I don't cry when I see noob picks, but I definitely think you're bad yeah will just put this here http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.htmlps. I dont even like the guy but he bring some valid points
In another one of his articles Sirlin actually talks about the idea of "soft bans". In Japan, some characters in fighting games are recognized as being OP against most other characters in the game, making the game a lot less fun because there are so few characters worth playing. So people just have kind of an unwritten rule against playing the character even though he isn't actually banned in competitive.
I have nothing against playing to win, especially in competitive play but in casual play as well. Additionally I definitely think that people like run.at.me are overreacting and are way off base. That being said, I definitely understand the frustration of playing against 5-stacks/the same op heroes over and over again.
Sirlin also has an article(I believe it's a followup to playing to win) that acknowledges the point that Yango makes about playing to improve vs playing to win. MM is different from competitive matches, and the "playing to win" attitude doesn't necessarily apply as much in MM as it does in competitive, where you should abuse the fuck out of anything you can in order to win.
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On May 10 2013 13:49 igotmyown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 12:43 r_con wrote:
playing to win is now frowned upon in the dota community, picking strong heroes is a bad thing, and makes you a bad player... whats? do not understand.... http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060302This is actually a question I'm obsessed with: Why don't people work hard when it's in their best interest to do so? Why does Eddy Curry come to camp every year overweight? The (short) answer is that it's really risky to work hard, because then if you fail you can no longer say that you failed because you didn't work hard. It's a form of self-protection. Most of the psychological research on this is focused on why some kids don't study for tests -- which is a much more serious version of the same problem. If you get drunk the night before an exam instead of studying and you fail, then the problem is that you got drunk. If you do study and you fail, the problem is that you're stupid -- and stupid, for a student, is a death sentence. The point is that it is far more psychologically dangerous and difficult to prepare for a task than not to prepare
I don't think that's the main reason.Main reasons if you want to try hard you actually have to TRY hard.Takes more effort and more out of you.Like I often play with feet up on the desk in a really awkward position which hinders me from playing optimally,but it's comfortable so I do it.If I want to try hard I have to sit up straight,focus,pay attention to what's happening in every lane,etc.etc.Often it can be stressful and I don't really want to be stressed out by every game.
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I was playing a Rubick against an Exort Invoker, and was outlaning him. As I sent the bottle up on the courier, it got killed, so I figured they had a ward there. Courier respawned, sent the bottle finally up at level 6 and it gets camped again.
The invoker had a butt-buddy Lion who waited for a roughly 3 minutes in total of the early game just to kill the courier because I was wrecking this invoker. Is this a try-hard?
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On May 10 2013 15:49 eieio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 15:31 sandyph wrote:On May 10 2013 10:49 run.at.me wrote:
I'm sorry but there are definitely try hards in dota - while the game is competitive, it's also just a game - yet you see the nerds picking the ez nub heroes like nyx (seriously.. you don't pick nyx unless your a try hard noob)
They are labelled try hards because it is the equivalent of cheese in sc2.. Strategies that are much harder to counter than to execute.
While cheese in sc2 was generally accepted, nobody liked versing it and nobody respected it.
I don't cry when I see noob picks, but I definitely think you're bad yeah will just put this here http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.htmlps. I dont even like the guy but he bring some valid points In another one of his articles Sirlin actually talks about the idea of "soft bans". In Japan, some characters in fighting games are recognized as being OP against most other characters in the game, making the game a lot less fun because there are so few characters worth playing. So people just have kind of an unwritten rule against playing the character even though he isn't actually banned in competitive. I have nothing against playing to win, especially in competitive play but in casual play as well. Additionally I definitely think that people like run.at.me are overreacting and are way off base. That being said, I definitely understand the frustration of playing against 5-stacks/the same op heroes over and over again. Sirlin also has an article(I believe it's a followup to playing to win) that acknowledges the point that Yango makes about playing to improve vs playing to win. MM is different from competitive matches, and the "playing to win" attitude doesn't necessarily apply as much in MM as it does in competitive, where you should abuse the fuck out of anything you can in order to win.
we did have softban in dota... Many tournaments in dota1 considering Lonedruid and Lycan or even shadow demon invoker to be default ban. Mek, necro, guinsoo... are limited per team etc.. Right now our softban is Armlet on bear, if that was too game breaking, Valve would have hot fixed by now? However they spent time to fix Slark dark pact instead :-/
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On May 10 2013 15:06 akatama wrote:
How to find out what bracket you are in:
1. Get a friend;
2. Find match;
3. Pick Dark Seer and Clinkz/BH;
4. Lane together;
5. Pop Ion Shell on said Clinkz/BH;
6. Clinkz/BH go invisible and move command the enemy;
7. Interpret results as following based on enemy reactions:
7a. They stand and die: Congratulations! You are in the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7b. They go back to their tower: Congratulations! You are SLIGHTLY above the Mariana Trench Trash Bracket Tier of Matchmaking!
7c. They buy sentries and laugh at your double melee lane: Congratulations! You are facing people who think! Now use your PRO 1337 SKILLZ to win game!
What if they notice that clinkz isn't melee?
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EPT
