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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:04 Sn0_Man wrote: I said in the first post that Armlet is better than I thought and why I made the comment.Admitting you were wrong is apparently very difficult...  Ah well. I don't know, should I start bringing up 4 month old posts from people and say they were wrong? Have the discussion when the discussion is being had and teach us wrong then. Bringing up things now is quite frankly silly. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:08 teapoted wrote: I said in the first post that Armlet is better than I thought and why I made the comment. I don't know, should I start bringing up 4 month old posts from people and say they were wrong? This is silly. On the flip side, you are defending a 4 month old post, and attacking a person making a post about a 4 month old post. Conclusion: everyone is wrong and horrible except me and everyone should play ricochet. Also another conclusion since its on topic: Tranquils soul ring drums morphling is the best build. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I wonder if sheep morph wouldn't be legit tho. Or orchid. | ||
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:15 Skullflower wrote: A painfully under-appreciated Half-life 1 mod.What is Ricochet? Are we talking about that shitty Denzel Washington movie from the 90's with John Lithgow ![[image loading]](http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/7/71184/2463736-ricochet_hl_mod.jpg) | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On May 04 2013 05:58 Sn0_Man wrote: "2K gold for Daedalus would be fine. It doesn't give you any survivability" That really isn't an argument lol. And silence is decent in terms of survivability against some lineups. It certainly could be worse. I think thats called a strawman. Orchid is fine for its costs. It's great for solokilling (thats why people build it on qop/clinkz) and not so much for teamfight HENCE the no survivability. And yeah orchid is better than daedalus for solokill or teamfight. But guess what, doesnt matter cuz they don't overlapse in usage | ||
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:17 teapoted wrote: A painfully under-appreciated Half-life 1 mod. Oh ok I had no idea that was a thing. Thanks! | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:17 Erasme wrote: I think thats called a strawman. Orchid is fine for its costs. It's great for solokilling (thats why people build it on qop/clinkz) and not so much for teamfight HENCE the no survivability. And yeah orchid is better than daedalus for solokill or teamfight. But guess what, doesnt matter cuz they don't overlapse in usage In some situations, its actually quite good for teamfight depending on the strength of your teams burst damage, and how dependent the other team is on one or two spellcasters, and how much you can exploit this until BKB's For example - using orchid on Magnus / Puck. | ||
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wairai
Malaysia1000 Posts
it put me on Z X R lol and my hotkey on spirit is gone because of this. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:24 wairai wrote: playing ET with legacy keys feels weird it put me on Z X R lol and my hotkey on spirit is gone because of this. That's definitely bugged. Should be C, T, R for ult (can't remember aura) IIRC. You might just have to go to the options and disable reenable legacy keys, that bug happens from time to time. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Deso is quickly becoming obsolete on naix I think, because people have started to realize that you can just get an orchid and get more utility out of it. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
I've seen the build here and there, but I'm just not convinced. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Deso is 60 damage and -6 armour so ~36% reduced EHP vs phys. 4100gold Orchid is 30 damage 30IAS and 30% extra all damage as magic damage. Plus 25 int and 150% mana regen. And a silence. 4125 gold. So deso outperforms orchid vs: Towers, rosh. And thats as a PURE DPS ITEM. Ignoring the other conveniences orchid offers. Plus orchid build up is godly. I mean, I guess deso doesn't cost mana to activate and can be applied to more than one hero for your allies convenience, but there is no way it measures up IMO. PS: I guess orchid is fairly vulnerable to BKB. But AFAIK they still take any damage amp racked up when the BKB pops. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:33 Itsmedudeman wrote: Why would you need an orchid on naix? Unless you're trying to kill an am or somethin'. Most of the time I don't think you need that much damage, and you're not exactly a heavy roaming ganker. I've seen the build here and there, but I'm just not convinced. Fnatic's Era is probably the player I've seen in the pro scene use orchid on naix the most often, but basically the mentality is pretty simple. If you're doing something like mag mid where your team is unlikely to get an orchid, it's basically the best item for its cost after you get your jango and armlet. Look at the stats, and you'll see why. It's essentially dead even with deso on damage, but it gives you crucial utility that you otherwise would not have. It's incredibly good against pesky midlaners especially, like QoP, puck, storm, etc. Normally you can't burst these guys down because they'll just use their abilities and run away. With orchid they're forced to go for a defensive item, and as the carry you're likely to get an orchid incredibly fast. The math definitely supports orchid as being one of the best damage/cost items. It's the utility that pushes it over the edge. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34507 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:38 Firebolt145 wrote: It is obviously more useful if you are facing heroes like QoP, AM and Storm, but without them, Orchids is a hugely situational pickup on Naix which delays your teamfighting items such as Armlet/AC/Basher for a purely gank oriented item. ...Am i the only one that sees value in orchid as a teamfighting item (against storm / Qop / Puck)? | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:37 Sn0_Man wrote: Thats actually a good point. Deso is 60 damage and -6 armour so ~36% reduced EHP vs phys. 4100gold Orchid is 30 damage 30IAS and 30% extra all damage as magic damage. Plus 25 int and 150% mana regen. And a silence. 4125 gold. So deso outperforms orchid vs: Towers, rosh. And thats as a PURE DPS ITEM. Ignoring the other conveniences orchid offers. Plus orchid build up is godly. I mean, I guess deso doesn't cost mana to activate and can be applied to more than one hero for your allies convenience, but there is no way it measures up IMO. PS: I guess orchid is fairly vulnerable to BKB. But AFAIK they still take any damage amp racked up when the BKB pops. you forget that minus armor helps feast | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
You mean the lifesteal part or the part where orchid damage amp still affects the damage? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:38 Firebolt145 wrote: It is obviously more useful if you are facing heroes like QoP, AM and Storm, but without them, Orchids is a hugely situational pickup on Naix which delays your teamfighting items such as Armlet/AC/Basher for a purely gank oriented item. you always get armlet first, there's no question about that. The question is only about what should your second major item be. Assuming you're farming well you can get armlet sub 10 minutes, so it's not out of the question to get drum + armlet + orchid and then just go around killing people. AC is better for pushing and raw damage, and basher into abyssal is better for pure lockdown on physical carries. Orchid is usually taken for teamfighting and ganking. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
and i was talking about the damage on feast, the thing that allows you to threeshot any hero with armlet/deso | ||
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