EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2655
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 25 2013 04:20 TheYango wrote: BKB is generally not that good on Razor unless you somehow ended up in a strange teamcomp where you are the 1st position carry. Remember your 3rd skill is fundamentally reliant on people casting spells at you--and punishes them for doing so. While a lot of your usefulness comes from leeching damage from their carry, part of it is also that you force enemies to burn themselves throwing spells at you trying to get you OFF their carry. This is true, but I feel like if I were a team tasked at dealing with a razor, my primary goal would be to wait for him to tether someone, instant stunning him and breaking the tether, and just ignore him for the rest of the fight. Not having a BKB could really hurt in that regard. I guess I am talking about Razor as a 1 position, but I could only think of Razor being played once in a long time and I think...maybe it was mouz running the Razor as a 1 against a Naix? It almost worked, but eventually they lost their advantage and lost the game. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On April 25 2013 04:24 Dubzex wrote: Does Eul's break the tether? no, its just counted as a fixed location. unless you cast eul imidiately while casting tether in that case it extends the effective range of the spell. | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
Assuming I don't have to carry with right clicks or the enemy team has something that will blow me up at the beginning of the fight it really snowballs. After that more active items or more health make it super fun. It is surprisingly hard to lose a fight with two storms and two links. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:15 Percutio wrote: If I'm farming a shit load on my Razor I get atos, refresher, aghs. Assuming I don't have to carry with right clicks or the enemy team has something that will blow me up at the beginning of the fight it really snowballs. After that more active items or more health make it super fun. It is surprisingly hard to lose a fight with two storms and two links. I know the storms stack, but do the links stack as well? Can multiple links be cast on one target or does it need to be on two separate targets? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I would definitely get something to survive longer over Manta, but I think I'm outdated with Razor. I should have mentioned that if I feel I am going heart I get the vit booster after I finish yasha as I feel you get a lot out of that just on its own (I go heart in a large # of my games with him as well so take that into account as well). | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On April 25 2013 04:20 Sn0_Man wrote: The "straightforward" bkb counters are Bane and Beastmaster. Can go mek on BM easily (PS: his boar attacks slow through BKB). You can also play doom to disable their bkb entirely (assuming you doom first). If you choose to play doom I recommend a more spellcasting route with items like Euls and shiva's. His spells are seriously good, and he naturally has like 2K hp at level 16 or something. Just needs armor and mana. You can doom someone who has BKB up. It even damages through it. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Skadi seems pretty meh given that with your items you are moving at approximately haste speed already. Deso also seems sketchy given the +dmg isn't much compared to what a good link will get you and the -armor while quite good also shouldn't be a priority (if it is just get an AC for self-tankiness and some attack speed to abuse the free +200 damage from link). Heart is always decent, and is very strong on razor although some consideration should also be given to satanic in it's place (EDIT: obviously if you want to go vit booster first then just finish heart  ). | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:30 Nevuk wrote: You can doom someone who has BKB up. It even damages through it. Meanwhile they are distinctly magic immune and still invalidating any attempts your teammates are making to stun or kill them with magic damage. I mean, yes you can and it definitely helps but if you are dying constantly to right-click BKB heroes because you can't disrupt them (which is basically what TdL was complaining about), then dooming them INSIDE BKB isn't too likely to disrupt them either (although I do get that these heroes rely on some abilities or items for mobility, and doom cuts that off potentially allowing allies to escape). It's IMO generally preferable to utterly remove BKB from the equation by dooming first rather than letting them BKB before getting your doom off. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:30 Sn0_Man wrote: Razor has some pretty bad stat gain, only 475 attack range and only 1 ability that remotely scales auto attacks (his static link). As such, he's a pretty meh candidate for hard carry compared to a lot of other heroes. However, he farms decently, can be active pretty quick, and really he does do a lot of damage without damage items in the right circumstances. Skadi seems pretty meh given that with your items you are moving at approximately haste speed already. Deso also seems sketchy given the +dmg isn't much compared to what a good link will get you and the -armor while quite good also shouldn't be a priority (if it is just get an AC for self-tankiness and some attack speed to abuse the free +200 damage from link). Heart is always decent, and is very strong on razor although some consideration should also be given to satanic in it's place. That makes a lot of sense. I did notice it is hard to carry with him and was curious as to why. The thought was that you get attack speed items to increase the damage you take from link (hence the yasha into manta) so I see what you mean. I guess the idea is heart for magic heavier lineups AC for the more physical ones. Skadi I think is situational though, and depends on the specific heroes. I like it because it gives you amazingly good stats (even if the buildup to it is awful) and if the enemy is a lifestealer or an alchemist you should be able to kite all day with it while still getting damage via link. It isn't a common item though IMO, but can be good situationally and needs to be considered I think. The question I have is after my survivability item (AC/Heart) what do you suggest next? EDIT: On April 25 2013 05:34 Sn0_Man wrote: Meanwhile they are distinctly magic immune and still invalidating any attempts your teammates are making to stun or kill them with magic damage. I mean, yes you can and it definitely helps but if you are dying constantly to right-click BKB heroes because you can't disrupt them (which is basically what TdL was complaining about), then dooming them INSIDE BKB isn't too likely to disrupt them either (although I do get that these heroes rely on some abilities or items for mobility, and doom cuts that off potentially allowing allies to escape). It's IMO generally preferable to utterly remove BKB from the equation by dooming first rather than letting them BKB before getting your doom off. That is why you go straight abyssal blade, duh. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
sometimes a quick bkb works wonders, and lothars is fun but not really that good lategame skadi/bfly/heart/satanic/bkb/ac are all good depending on the game later on heavier dps items like crit/mkb are nice manta and sny are decent too i don't like getting roa or drums because razor tends to run out of slots pretty quickly, since most of the items that are good on him are pretty cheap. drums/roa are still okay but at like 20~25 minutes you're already at 5 slots even without them (phase/treads, wand, vanguard/hood, yasha, pointbooster/vitbooster/hotd/ogreaxe/w.e) | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
EDIT: oh yeah fast lothars razor is hilarious because you can ult and link and run invis beside somebody and they just die lmao. Of course, tanky items achieve the same thing without causing you to die randomly to detection | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
It wasn't fun. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
Just build him for the early game. Phase, RoB, Drums and SnY. After that stage just play as a semi carry getting stuff to help your main carry (pipe, vlads, AC, etc... maybe even a sheep). He would need a buff before he is a viable 1st position. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
EDIT: Just confirmed this. 0 Lothars built in 700+ hours of doto. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 25 2013 05:48 Comeh wrote: I've been stomped by a Lothars Razor before. It wasn't fun. Brazilians did that to me haha! I prefer Eul's over Lothar's in terms of gimmick. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
Update Notes - April 25, 2013 GAMEPLAY - Enabled Drow and Tusk in Captain's Mode (Tournament Version). - Enabled Bristleback, Slark and Skywrath Mage in Captain's Mode (Latest Version). - Invoker: Fixed Cold Snap being purgable. - Skywrath Mage: Fixed hitbox being too small. - Slark: Fixed Shadow Dance giving Slark flying vision. - Slark: Fixed Shadow Dance granting passive bonuses to Slark illusions. - Slark: Fixed an issue causing Shadow Dance's passive modifier to not update in the UI, despite being active. - Slark: Fixed Dark Pact continuing while Slark is dead. - Slark: Essence Shift counters on both Slark and enemy heroes will show the total duration ( i.e. the time that the most recent stack will expire.) - Slark: Fixed a number of incorrect spell interactions with Dark Pact. - Slark: Fixed a number of horizontal movement ability interactions with Pounce. - Troll Warlord: Fixed Berserker's Rage bonus damage not being applied as base damage. - Tusk: Fixed Frozen Sigil not affecting magic immune units. WORKSHOP - Added HUD Skins to the Workshop Importer. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
Man are they weird: http://dotabuff.com/heroes/winning | ||
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