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General Discussion - Page 2641

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 19:56:43
April 22 2013 19:56 GMT
#52801
On April 23 2013 04:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:
will Yango get a star this year

please

He got a hammer instead.

He esentially embodies every response I've ever wanted to write, but am usually too lazy to write out completely. He also will continue discussions where I would have been like "ehhhh fuck it, I'm not going to argue with this clearly wrong guy anymore"

(no offense to anyone, he's done it to all of us at some point).

Icefraud pls nerf yango
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
April 22 2013 20:00 GMT
#52802
personally i find urn a bit too stronk as i tend to get it a lot. Either if its the casting range or the healing speed + cooldown, i wouldnt mind too much seeing it got nerfed a bit. The offense usage of urn that is, the defensive usage is fine.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
April 22 2013 20:04 GMT
#52803
I would tend to agree, but on the overall side of it. Urn probably the strongest item gold-wise for what it provides, it's silly.

I'm not sure why you don't see it every game, you could make it on every mid hero out there that has any ganking power and it would be a legit thing to do. It stays relevant even through the mid game and once you have to sell it you don't even feel bad because it was so cheap anyway.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Asymmetric
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland1309 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 20:24:35
April 22 2013 20:06 GMT
#52804
On April 23 2013 04:15 TheYango wrote:
The other problem you've failed to address is that pretty much everything Centaur has is melee range, and he has one long-cooldown engagement skill that only lasts 3.75 seconds. You're skipping Blink Dagger, and buying no +MS (even delaying your Boots upgrade) on a 300 MS hero. All the damage you buy means nothing if your ability to stay on targets is weak. You're essentially going all-in on your ability to one-shot people inside ult+stun (which will only catch 1-2 people if you don't have a Blink), and after that all your fighting power is gone.

It's why Phase+Drum became popular on Naix--people realized that superior mobility results in more practical teamfight power than more raw damage on a hero that has no Blink-like skills. And without Blink or any significant +MS items, it's a problem you have to deal with in your Centaur build. From this perspective, even on carry Centaur, Lothar's is a more appropriate follow-up than Armlet.

The flexibility that Blink allows you is that you can Blink initiate, and then WAIT on your ult until the initial round of disables runs out, and use it for the ability to stick on a target when your stun is on CD, rather than having to use it to get in range to use your stun in the first place.


Ultimately Centaur is reliant on his team to bridge the gap. This is true regardless of what build with centaur you do, if your getting urn and leaving lane rapidly it's unlikely you'll actually get the gank on others without proper support. it's also debatable how quick you'll get that blink dagger up on him if your coming out of lane rapidly.

He seems to perform best in aggressive lanes. I would use him as the head of an aggressive tri-lane. He's one of the better tower pushers as well with strength scaling on return reflecting damage back at towers making him decent with other pushers like lone druid and chen which help to force out early team fights.

I imagine an aggressive tri-lane of Centaur/Bane/Leshrac a mid with Magnus/Batrider (batrider lassoo is ridiculous with stampede) mid and a lone druid off-lane could make for a pretty aggressive line up to go for an early win.


++++


I can't say I have considered shadow blade on Centaur. I suppose it allows heros like Kunkka and Alchemist to initiate so it may indeed compensate for this.


evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8923 Posts
April 22 2013 20:43 GMT
#52805
On April 23 2013 05:00 NB wrote:
personally i find urn a bit too stronk as i tend to get it a lot. Either if its the casting range or the healing speed + cooldown, i wouldnt mind too much seeing it got nerfed a bit. The offense usage of urn that is, the defensive usage is fine.

the offensive side isnt THAT strong. i mean its strong, but its not like the 130? dmg is a game changer mid game.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34507 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 20:49:00
April 22 2013 20:48 GMT
#52806
On April 23 2013 04:56 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 04:29 DoNotDisturb wrote:
will Yango get a star this year

please

He got a hammer instead.

He esentially embodies every response I've ever wanted to write, but am usually too lazy to write out completely. He also will continue discussions where I would have been like "ehhhh fuck it, I'm not going to argue with this clearly wrong guy anymore"

(no offense to anyone, he's done it to all of us at some point).

Icefraud pls nerf yango

Many times I'll read something that I want to make a point for/against, I start typing, realise I don't know the actual math to support it or have difficulty penning down my thoughts, then I just think 'ah whatever leave it to Yango' and do something else.
Moderator
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
April 22 2013 20:49 GMT
#52807
On April 23 2013 05:43 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 05:00 NB wrote:
personally i find urn a bit too stronk as i tend to get it a lot. Either if its the casting range or the healing speed + cooldown, i wouldnt mind too much seeing it got nerfed a bit. The offense usage of urn that is, the defensive usage is fine.

the offensive side isnt THAT strong. i mean its strong, but its not like the 130? dmg is a game changer mid game.

its damage type is HP removal and it comes pretty much for free at extremely low cd. Yeah that alone isnt strong but if you combine it with all the benefits that urn already give you defensively, it turns to be pretty powerful.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 21:34:43
April 22 2013 21:33 GMT
#52808
It's also 950 range, which is extremely long for point-and-click no-nonsense damage. Though most gankers get in range to use it closer anyway, the extremely long range makes it comfortable for supports to use because they can pop an urn charge on someone on the other side of their screen without remotely being in danger.
Moderator
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
April 22 2013 22:12 GMT
#52809
Roaming TA strong.

Also, Orchid is pretty good on TA.
Avs
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (North)857 Posts
April 22 2013 22:15 GMT
#52810
I haven't reported anyone for weeks but every time I open Dota 2 it says Valve has taken action against players I've reported.
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
April 22 2013 22:31 GMT
#52811
On April 23 2013 07:12 maru~ wrote:
Roaming TA strong.

Also, Orchid is pretty good on TA.


Except nowadays you pretty much have to rush bkb before/after blink against most of the common mids/lineups (bat/sd/lesh/bane/nyx, etc) and ~8000 gold in there's probably a better orchid carrier on your team (maybe not though). I'd also much rather have a deso or close to finishing a daedalus if I wanted a dps snowball item.
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
April 22 2013 22:47 GMT
#52812
On April 23 2013 07:15 Avs wrote:
I haven't reported anyone for weeks but every time I open Dota 2 it says Valve has taken action against players I've reported.

Same, haven't reported anyone for months, but I'm still getting the message.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
April 22 2013 23:05 GMT
#52813
- Chat wheel isn't prevented when communication banned.
- Fixed bug allowing more than the maximum reports/commends per week.
- Allow chat in private/tournament lobbies while communication banned.
- Players are now notified how much time is remaining on the communication ban.
- Fixed server stability issue that was resulting in a reduced number of servers and long wait times.
- Fixed issue where heroes were not displaying in the Loadout panel when using some items.
- Workshop panel updates the hero and item models on import.
- Fixed an issue where some courier effects were not being loaded and displayed.
- Fixed an issue where Lina's Fiery Soul skin was incorrect.

All current communication bans have been lifted as of this update.


More chat stuff.
Liquipedia
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 23:11:13
April 22 2013 23:09 GMT
#52814
On April 23 2013 07:31 RuskiPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 07:12 maru~ wrote:
Roaming TA strong.

Also, Orchid is pretty good on TA.


Except nowadays you pretty much have to rush bkb before/after blink against most of the common mids/lineups (bat/sd/lesh/bane/nyx, etc) and ~8000 gold in there's probably a better orchid carrier on your team (maybe not though). I'd also much rather have a deso or close to finishing a daedalus if I wanted a dps snowball item.

Sometimes I'd rather have the extra utility of Orchid (i.e. a spammable silence) than more damage, which TA frankly doesn't lack until later in the game. Also, comparing it to Daedalus is kind of unfair, considering you can almost afford Orchid + Crys for the price of Daedalus. BKB doesn't actually do that much against most of the heroes you mentioned. + Show Spoiler +
I also think Blink is kind of overrated, but that's another story.



Just read the Centaur discussion, imo Lothar's is the go-to item if you want to semicarry. Mobility in fights, solokill ability, forces enemies to spend money on detection (even then you're still hard to kill due to innate tankiness and ms boost), and the as is pretty useful later on, since you will be hitting hard at some point but lacking as. Blink is more reliable initiation and makes breaking highground easier, but Lothar's gives so much that I'd take that over Blink most of the time, especially in pubs.
After that, stack str (Halberd is really good and the evasion gives a ton of ehp, Heart is is an obvious lategame choice) and get AC.
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
April 22 2013 23:19 GMT
#52815
On April 23 2013 08:05 blahz0r wrote:
Show nested quote +
- Chat wheel isn't prevented when communication banned.
- Fixed bug allowing more than the maximum reports/commends per week.
- Allow chat in private/tournament lobbies while communication banned.
- Players are now notified how much time is remaining on the communication ban.
- Fixed server stability issue that was resulting in a reduced number of servers and long wait times.
- Fixed issue where heroes were not displaying in the Loadout panel when using some items.
- Workshop panel updates the hero and item models on import.
- Fixed an issue where some courier effects were not being loaded and displayed.
- Fixed an issue where Lina's Fiery Soul skin was incorrect.

All current communication bans have been lifted as of this update.


More chat stuff.



This is still bad, this communication ban is one of the stupidest idea ever implemented in any kind of online game
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
April 22 2013 23:26 GMT
#52816
On April 23 2013 08:19 Fatalize wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 08:05 blahz0r wrote:
- Chat wheel isn't prevented when communication banned.
- Fixed bug allowing more than the maximum reports/commends per week.
- Allow chat in private/tournament lobbies while communication banned.
- Players are now notified how much time is remaining on the communication ban.
- Fixed server stability issue that was resulting in a reduced number of servers and long wait times.
- Fixed issue where heroes were not displaying in the Loadout panel when using some items.
- Workshop panel updates the hero and item models on import.
- Fixed an issue where some courier effects were not being loaded and displayed.
- Fixed an issue where Lina's Fiery Soul skin was incorrect.

All current communication bans have been lifted as of this update.


More chat stuff.



This is still bad, this communication ban is one of the stupidest idea ever implemented in any kind of online game


Is it still that bad though? Chat Wheel should provide pretty much everything you need, together with pings and "Alert Allies" from support items.

"Oh but then I can't communicate on a deeper level, advanced strats etc" now hear me out.
1. If you were banned in the first place, it's most likely that you wouldn't contribute THAT much
2. This is a 5 player game. If one of them is banned, the other 4 can still strategize. "OH but they are bad and don't know how to do it" - well, sucks to be you, but you got bad teammates. And if you hadn't been banned in the first place, you would be able to win that game.
-- Of course, this gets worse when it gets into a 3-silent + 2-talking players. But then, these two players better coordinate the team and the silent players better listen to them if they want to win - if they don't, well they deserve to lose.


Still, there are things that can be improved. For instance, the lack of a "Affirmative" and "Negative" options on the chat wheel make it an issue.

Then there is the biggest issue that the system is automated. If the system actually was less rigorous, or there were people actually checking the chat-reports, this would be a much better system. AFAIK right now any stack can just report and ban you for shits and giggles.


It's a step in the right direction.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
April 22 2013 23:32 GMT
#52817
On April 23 2013 08:26 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 08:19 Fatalize wrote:
On April 23 2013 08:05 blahz0r wrote:
- Chat wheel isn't prevented when communication banned.
- Fixed bug allowing more than the maximum reports/commends per week.
- Allow chat in private/tournament lobbies while communication banned.
- Players are now notified how much time is remaining on the communication ban.
- Fixed server stability issue that was resulting in a reduced number of servers and long wait times.
- Fixed issue where heroes were not displaying in the Loadout panel when using some items.
- Workshop panel updates the hero and item models on import.
- Fixed an issue where some courier effects were not being loaded and displayed.
- Fixed an issue where Lina's Fiery Soul skin was incorrect.

All current communication bans have been lifted as of this update.


More chat stuff.



This is still bad, this communication ban is one of the stupidest idea ever implemented in any kind of online game


Is it still that bad though? Chat Wheel should provide pretty much everything you need, together with pings and "Alert Allies" from support items.

"Oh but then I can't communicate on a deeper level, advanced strats etc" now hear me out.
1. If you were banned in the first place, it's most likely that you wouldn't contribute THAT much
2. This is a 5 player game. If one of them is banned, the other 4 can still strategize. "OH but they are bad and don't know how to do it" - well, sucks to be you, but you got bad teammates. And if you hadn't been banned in the first place, you would be able to win that game.
-- Of course, this gets worse when it gets into a 3-silent + 2-talking players. But then, these two players better coordinate the team and the silent players better listen to them if they want to win - if they don't, well they deserve to lose.


Still, there are things that can be improved. For instance, the lack of a "Affirmative" and "Negative" options on the chat wheel make it an issue.

Then there is the biggest issue that the system is automated. If the system actually was less rigorous, or there were people actually checking the chat-reports, this would be a much better system. AFAIK right now any stack can just report and ban you for shits and giggles.


It's a step in the right direction.




It's not, because you get reported for no friggin reason. You will get reported for lack of communication because you CANT communicate, which will extend your ban longer. The number of reports treshold is ridiculously low to get chat banned.

They should just remove any kind of report mechanic. Because those kind of things always end up like in LoL: everybody reports everybody for no reason. And it leads to half of the players being muted, and nothing beneficial.
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
April 22 2013 23:33 GMT
#52818
the amount of people being chat banned for being innocent angels getting picked on by the mean stack in their game is probably 1/50 the amount of people getting chat banned for being assholes.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
April 22 2013 23:35 GMT
#52819
communication ban is undoubtedly the best way to educate players. You will have to find yourself play FOR the team instead of forcing the team to play for you. In a sense it force people to listen more, look into other sources of information from the game that could normally obtained via chatting method.

The unfinished part about the current system is more about how you can only report 4 people each week and each report worth a lot more. There are definitely better way to get this work.
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
Fatalize
Profile Joined January 2011
France5210 Posts
April 22 2013 23:36 GMT
#52820
On April 23 2013 08:33 crms wrote:
the amount of people being chat banned for being innocent angels getting picked on by the mean stack in their game is probably 1/50 the amount of people getting chat banned for being assholes.


Criticizing somebody for suiciding over and over again in the ennemies' jungle is considered being an asshole I guess. People gets butthurted for no reason, it's absurd. We're not in the United States, we shouldnt be reported for dropping the F-bomb.
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