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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:27 Zexion wrote: I have problems finding games (Europe). Keep getting stuck on "finding server". Is it only me? If so, does anyone know what the problem could be? yea somethings fucked for the last few days | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:36 SKC wrote: Why exactly does Centaur has such a significantly faster farm rate in the early game? Well, he can clear creeps alright with double edge and return, but the question then is - why are devoting farm to a hero like Centuar who has little to none scalability past the 25 minute mark, versus practically any other carry / semi carry? I'm all aboard the idea of giving him room to get a blink dagger, but anything beyond that and having him not constantly fighting seems a like a waste of the hero. He just doesn't scale that well. | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:36 SKC wrote: Why exactly does Centaur has such a significantly faster farm rate in the early game? Double edge. 8 seconds cooldown with zero mana cost for 400 damage mini aoe. Almost one shots an entire creep wave. Clears small jungle camps in 1 hit. If you rush hood of defiance you can almost spam it off cooldown at lvl7. With an Iron Helm you can. Due to getting Hood early and having a very large health pool, you make a very difficult to deal with early target because the method most used to actually do damage at these stages in the game is usually magic nukes. He doesn't scale as badly in the late as some of you are making out though. He does have the highest strength gain in the entire game and return damage starts adding up when your sitting on 5k health. He's not as good in the late game as true carrys, but then neither is broodmother and she's used for narrow timing windows. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:39 Comeh wrote: Well, he can clear creeps alright with double edge and return, but the question then is - why are devoting farm to a hero like Centuar who has little to none scalability past the 25 minute mark, versus practically any other carry / semi carry? I'm all aboard the idea of giving him room to get a blink dagger, but anything beyond that and having him not constantly fighting seems a like a waste of the hero. He just doesn't scale that well. Yeah, but early game if you were banking on him he would be safelane farming. You wouldn't leave him splitpushing like an AM, after the lanes break out it's time for him to start participating in teamfights. Leaving him farming midgame makes little sense, because that would mean hoping he can carry lategame. The timing a carry Centaur would have to hit would be too early for his creep clearing abilities really matter I think. It would be about getting a quick Armlet and upgraded boots and started trying to kill people. I guess he could have an easier time clearing stacks, but overall I just don't see his skills making him a significantly richer midgame fighter than CK. On April 23 2013 03:40 Asymmetric wrote: Due to getting Hood early and having a very large health pool, you make a very difficult to deal with early target because the method most used to actually do damage at these stages in the game is usually magic nukes. He doesn't scale as badly in the late as some of you are making out though. He does have the highest strength gain in the entire game and return damage starts adding up when your sitting on 5k health. You have no reason to focus a lategame carry Centaur. And giving him such a farm priority means you don't have a carry to fall back on and actually do damage. Specially if you go for a defensive build with Hood and Tarrasque and such. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2013 02:56 SKC wrote: Centaur isn't carry like Tiny or CK though. It's like skipping Blink on Axe. Sure your ult can help land the stuns, but it gives plenty of time for your opponents to spread out and is better used after you blink in, so your teammates can follow up with perfect positioning. The better comparison is Blink on Slardar. You CAN use Sprint to engage, but in most scenarios against strong opponents, it's not practical to do so, because a Sprint/Stampede engage will get you 2 stomp targets max. Slardar is actually also the most comparable hero for this discussion, and itemizing Centaur follows a similar mindset--you can buy DPS items and be quite effective if you are fed--but outside of those really fed early game scenarios, it's generally more reliable to focus on Blink initiation and team items that also enhance your personal combat power (e.g. Halberd, Assault Cuirass). | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:40 Asymmetric wrote: Double edge. 8 seconds cooldown with zero mana cost for 400 damage mini aoe. Almost one shots an entire creep wave. Clears small jungle camps in 1 hit. If you rush hood of defiance you can almost spam it off cooldown at lvl7. With an Iron Helm you can. Due to getting Hood early and having a very large health pool, you make a very difficult to deal with early target because the method most used to actually do damage at these stages in the game is usually magic nukes. He doesn't scale as badly in the late as some of you are making out though. He does have the highest strength gain in the entire game and return damage starts adding up when your sitting on 5k health. He's not as good in the late game as true carrys, but then neither is broodmother and she's used for narrowing timing windows. how can your centaur carry against AM, Void, PL, CK, Spectre, or basically anything that is actually a CARRY? | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
 " in allchat after teamwiping | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:40 Asymmetric wrote: If you rush hood of defiance you can almost spam it off cooldown at lvl7. With an Iron Helm you can. Buying regen stats to the point of being incapable of running out is pretty much always the wrong choice because health and mana regen are extremely low effectiveness as direct combat stats. Typically you want to go with the approach of buying as LITTLE regen as is necessary to be sustainable, and then transition into buying combat stats. From that line, buying Hood and Helm is vastly overkill in terms of regen. And honestly, with Centaur's early ganking power, Urn is probably the most efficient regen item for him regardless. | ||
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Klonere
Ireland4123 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:00 Klonere wrote: he should just go drums urn right Shhh you are giving out Yango's secret build for every hero | ||
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:56 TheYango wrote: Buying regen stats to the point of being incapable of running out is pretty much always the wrong choice because health and mana regen are extremely low effectiveness as direct combat stats. Typically you want to go with the approach of buying as LITTLE regen as is necessary to be sustainable, and then transition into buying combat stats. From that line, buying Hood and Helm is vastly overkill in terms of regen. And honestly, with Centaur's early ganking power, Urn is probably the most efficient regen item for him regardless. I respectfully disagree. Hood gives you survivability in combat (EHP). Also you are assuming that at these levels you are in 5 on 5 fighting for the rest of the game. Sustainability is very important in the laning/ganking phase. It's not like he's buying a naked ring for the sake of it being a ring. Hood is a good item on Centaur for multiple reasons. That's why it's good. | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:03 Shai wrote: I respectfully disagree. Hood gives you survivability in combat (EHP). Also you are assuming that at these levels you are in 5 on 5 fighting for the rest of the game. Sustainability is very important in the laning/ganking phase. It's not like he's buying a naked ring for the sake of it being a ring. Hood is a good item on Centaur for multiple reasons. That's why it's good. and where is the reason to buy a helm if you got your hood? yango never said hood is bad on cent. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
RoH based options only outperform Urn if you're staying on lane for a long time, which Centaur shouldn't be doing. His post-level 6 is very active. You're not going to stay on lane and farm 3k gold worth of items (Hood+Helm) as Centaur while not going to fights. You're going to gank every time ult is up (and sometimes even when it's down when there are good opportunities), and you're going to be in every fight. The Hood is good later, but it by no means needs to be your first item. EDIT: Also, staying on basic boots is really awkward for Centaur. Before Blink, heroes like Centaur and Slardar rely on movement speed to get stuns off. Sprint is on a reasonable cooldown for Slardar, but Centaur cannot afford to wait on Ulti cooldowns to be able to fight and gank. Having an MS advantage (which is only possible if you upgrade your boots) is very important toward fighting/ganking successfully early game. | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:05 fleeze wrote: and where is the reason to buy a helm if you got your hood? yango never said hood is bad on cent. The helm was just to transition into armlet to boost your mid game damage. On April 23 2013 04:05 TheYango wrote: Urn is the best sustainability item if you are ganking. If you are ganking actively and effectively, it vastly outperforms Ring of Health (effectively 1-2 free Salves on every kill). RoH based options only outperform Urn if you're staying on lane for a long time, which Centaur shouldn't be doing. His post-level 6 is very active. You're not going to stay on lane and farm 3k gold worth of items (Hood+Helm) as Centaur while not going to fights. You're going to gank every time ult is up (and sometimes even when it's down when there are good opportunities), and you're going to be in every fight. The Hood is good later, but it by no means needs to be your first item. Seems plausible. I'm open to try rushing urn and increasing the gank rate. My only concern is it may not allow centaur to snowball out of control as hood can against certain line ups. On April 23 2013 03:53 fleeze wrote: how can your centaur carry against AM, Void, PL, CK, Spectre, or basically anything that is actually a CARRY? By killing them early. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's why Phase+Drum became popular on Naix--people realized that superior mobility results in more practical teamfight power than more raw damage on a hero that has no Blink-like skills. And without Blink or any significant +MS items, it's a problem you have to deal with in your Centaur build. From this perspective, even on carry Centaur, Lothar's is a more appropriate follow-up than Armlet. The flexibility that Blink allows you is that you can Blink initiate, and then WAIT on your ult until the initial round of disables runs out, and use it for the ability to stick on a target when your stun is on CD, rather than having to use it to get in range to use your stun in the first place. | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
please | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
It's still an awesome item for the heals and the str it provides but someone else should probably make one on the team to benefit from the % based mana regen. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:33 Andr3 wrote: I think urn is a waste in the sense that it provides little regen to him as CW has very little int. It's still an awesome item for the heals and the str it provides but someone else should probably make one on the team to benefit from the % based mana regen. That's not a very good argument because the regen is just as "bad" on Night Stalker and Pudge, but both heroes are very frequently Urn carriers. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
As a centaur you're heavily reliant on either your teammates or your ulti to do anything at least until you get a blink dagger. I'm not saying it's a bad item on him, I make it all the time(mostly because people seem to skip urn a lot), but the mana regen portion of the item is wasted on you. And you always gotta be rolling in assists/kills for it to pay off. | ||
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