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I personally don't care about the caster's knowledge, obviously he has to know a little bit about the game but minimal knowledge doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me though is the voice. I just CAN'T listen to Tobi, LD and Luminous because their voice makes my ears hurt. I just find them annoying.
Ayeseee, on other hand, has an awesome voice. Same with Synderen and Puppey.
Godz is kinda in between, but I like his casts.
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On April 18 2013 02:29 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
..Wait, has TL shifted from thinking Tobi is literally hitler? I've always been one to defend him, and I watch him religiously even if he does make mistakes like this. I think he has improved as a caster pretty dramatically over the past year and a half.
Yes, since TL is onyl represented by the user "wherebugsgo" and there are no other opinion on this site
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On April 18 2013 02:34 duoform wrote:I don't think anyone is saying he's bad. In matter of fact, like you well said, he works the most in our scene but mistakes like that shouldn't be an "excuse" only because you are exhausted. I'm actually pretty glad we have Tobi in our scene. If he excels in something, is bringing hype and excitement. Especially for newcomers. If he casted like + Show Spoiler + this every single time I doubt anyone would say anything..
You'd be surprised "HE GETS EXCITED OVER EVERYTHING AND SCREAMS TOO MUCH" was a common criticism for him.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 18 2013 02:38 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:34 duoform wrote:I don't think anyone is saying he's bad. In matter of fact, like you well said, he works the most in our scene but mistakes like that shouldn't be an "excuse" only because you are exhausted. I'm actually pretty glad we have Tobi in our scene. If he excels in something, is bringing hype and excitement. Especially for newcomers. If he casted like + Show Spoiler +http://youtu.be/oTrURSVXLMQ?t=1m36s this every single time I doubt anyone would say anything.. You'd be surprised "HE GETS EXCITED OVER EVERYTHING AND SCREAMS TOO MUCH" was a common criticism for him. Time and place. As I said in the last post I think he's the best 'big match' commentator. For like daily viewing I'd rather have something calmer.
He's really cut down on that though, I think the balance now is fine.
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On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere
there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with.
I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either.
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Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
Yeah I agree, pick prediction is more about how many games you watch rather than having all that great understanding of the game. I'm quite sure I can predict several EU teams better than winter can.
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Tobi was the reason I first started watching Dota, a long time ago I could only watch Tobi's casts as I found everyone else boring. Now I enjoy BTS and Lumi and all that, but I still go back to Tobi cause he just gets so damn excited. Tobi is a great caster, especially in terms of bringing in and exciting noobs about a game they don't understand.
Don't hate on Tobi so much guys, he's highly superior to a lot of the Sc2 and LoL casters...
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On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either.
Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl.
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On April 18 2013 02:41 Numy wrote:
Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge.
I agree, but you need some game knowledge too.
It was just an example. A lot of the time it's clear the casters aren't aware of what a team is trying to do and it carries across in their talk during the draft. A lot of the time their analysis becomes completely irrelevant because they don't understand how the picking and drafting works.
Meruna might be more knowledgeable on that front because of synderen, but who knows-whatever she's doing to be a good caster, I like it.
On April 18 2013 02:42 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either. Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl.
lumi has his days too IMO.
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On April 18 2013 02:43 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:41 Numy wrote:
Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge. I agree, but you need some game knowledge too. It was just an example. A lot of the time it's clear the casters aren't aware of what a team is trying to do and it carries across in their talk during the draft. A lot of the time their analysis becomes completely irrelevant because they don't understand how the picking and drafting works. Meruna might be more knowledgeable on that front because of synderen, but who knows-whatever she's doing to be a good caster, I like it. Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:42 Comeh wrote:On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either. Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl. lumi has his days too IMO.
Ah, I forgot about Lumi.
LD and godz aren't too bad about it either, though I think Draskyl and Lumi are better at it.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On April 18 2013 02:42 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either. Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl. To be honest I find most of the BTS guys to be more insightful than Draskyl. Draskyl might be one of the better players, but he quite clearly doesn't watch a lot of Dota (being on like 2-3 episodes of GD show made that pretty obvious). So he has like the knowledge you would get from being a good mechanical pub player, talks so much about item builds and what happened in the last team-fight. Dno, as analytical casters go I find it too bare. Nothing compares to real players either way.
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I really like BTS, but one thing they need to work on is talking over each other.
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On April 18 2013 02:46 teapoted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:42 Comeh wrote:On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either. Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl. To be honest I find most of the BTS guys to be more insightful than Draskyl. Draskyl might be one of the better players, but he quite clearly doesn't watch a lot of Dota (being on like 2-3 episodes of GD show made that pretty obvious). So he has like the knowledge you would get from being a good mechanical pub player, talks so much about item builds and what happened in the last team-fight. Dno, as analytical casters go I find it too bare. Nothing compares to real players either way.
Was about to point this out but you too dam quick.
I think what everyone forgets when talking about commentators is that they don't just commentate. They also have a lot of projects surrounding the game itself that need work on. I'd imagine if a company employed one of them as just a commentator and nothing else then the standard would be a lot higher. That's partly why I don't understand how Draskyl has such poor knowledge of the dota scene as a whole. Feels like he has less knowledge than some of us TLers. Maybe he does stuff I don't know about?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 18 2013 02:41 Numy wrote:
Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge.
It's actually really funny watching Chinese ex-pro commentators commentate SEA/Western games. They talk through the draft in such detail, and then suddenly one or both teams totally blindside them with a bad pick, and they get totally confused..
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On April 18 2013 02:36 BlitzerSC wrote:
I personally don't care about the caster's knowledge, obviously he has to know a little bit about the game but minimal knowledge doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me though is the voice. I just CAN'T listen to Tobi, LD and Luminous because their voice makes my ears hurt. I just find them annoying.
Ayeseee, on other hand, has an awesome voice. Same with Synderen and Puppey.
Godz is kinda in between, but I like his casts.
Wut?!
LD's voice is like hot chocolate for the ears.
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On April 18 2013 02:49 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:46 teapoted wrote:On April 18 2013 02:42 Comeh wrote:On April 18 2013 02:40 wherebugsgo wrote:On April 18 2013 02:35 evilfatsh1t wrote:On April 18 2013 02:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
honestly it's probably just a product of talking/casting so much. Tobi is one of the more knowledgable in the scene just through his experience, but he makes mistakes probably due to how overworked he is.
Almost every time I look at the stream list, Tobi is there. His ethic is pretty impressive.
He's not my favorite caster, but I don't think he's bad by any means. I definitely think a lot of the criticism he gets is overblown. I actually like his solo casts, recently he's toned down his overexcitement and for the majority of the game he articulates what's going on pretty well, and his analysis has been getting better during the non-critical points of the game.
Pretty egregious error, but usually his mistakes are explainable (and honestly he doesn't make them that often these days)
he may be experienced, but definitely not one of the more knowledgeable. there are huge gaps in his knowledge in regards to actual gameplay. he may understand teams' styles and drafts to an extent, but ive almost never seen him say something correct in terms of how a game will and should actually play out. and i just hate how he always has those puns or "smart" one liners. the things news casters do at the end of their show. anyways since no one answered my question previously. anyone know whether sea server is still screwed up? i get 300ping vs the old 100 and now i cant play anywhere there honestly aren't that many greatly knowledgeable casters in the scene to begin with. I've honestly heard more insights from meruna than I have from certain other casters. Her knowledge and ability to predict things is actually really impressive. There was one game where she correctly pinned the last two picks of some team on a BTS cast with LD, and they were certainly not easily predicted picks either. Most of the knowledgeable casters are...well, players. I think the closest we come to knowledgeable and full time casters is Draskyl. To be honest I find most of the BTS guys to be more insightful than Draskyl. Draskyl might be one of the better players, but he quite clearly doesn't watch a lot of Dota (being on like 2-3 episodes of GD show made that pretty obvious). So he has like the knowledge you would get from being a good mechanical pub player, talks so much about item builds and what happened in the last team-fight. Dno, as analytical casters go I find it too bare. Nothing compares to real players either way. Was about to point this out but you too dam quick. I think what everyone forgets when talking about commentators is that they don't just commentate. They also have a lot of projects surrounding the game itself that need work on. I'd imagine if a company employed one of them as just a commentator and nothing else then the standard would be a lot higher. That's partly why I don't understand how Draskyl has such poor knowledge of the dota scene as a whole. Feels like he has less knowledge than some of us TLers. Maybe he does stuff I don't know about?
TBH I think casting with Ayesee also impacts this a bit.
I love Ayesee to death, but sometimes he has no idea what he's talking about.
Alright guys, who wants to be my cocaster for our pro TL casting duo?
On April 18 2013 02:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:41 Numy wrote:
Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge. It's actually really funny watching Chinese ex-pro commentators commentate SEA/Western games. They talk through the draft in such detail, and then suddenly one or both teams totally blindside them with a bad pick, and they get totally confused..
Wish I spoke Chinese :[
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
I'm far too monotone. Although I always got positive comments about the voice when doing youtube stuff, still wouldn't work for casting.
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yeah lumi is the only caster ive found that actually bothers to study mechanics and stuff outside his casts. id say hes the most knowledgeable non-pro caster.
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On April 18 2013 02:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 02:41 Numy wrote:
Predicting picks has more to do with knowing a teams tendencies than just game knowledge. It's actually really funny watching Chinese ex-pro commentators commentate SEA/Western games. They talk through the draft in such detail, and then suddenly one or both teams totally blindside them with a bad pick, and they get totally confused..
Sigh I wonder if taking Mandarin as an elective is worth it. Not knowing a second language :<.
Anyway yea people must never confuse draft phase as being 100% what is theoretically best. It's always about what the players are more comfortable with.
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EPT
