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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:33 NasKe_ wrote: Hey guys, what is this shit about Blood seeker going force staff? Is a legite thing? I've seen in almost every pub. But for me sounds ridiculous. What do you think? Well the entire hero is a pub thing but here is NTH going Bloodseeker with everyone having Force Staffs. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:33 NasKe_ wrote: Hey guys, what is this shit about Blood seeker going force staff? Is a legite thing? I've seen in almost every pub. But for me sounds ridiculous. What do you think? And that Medusa on Anciant? Looks bullshit to me, such a low GPM. Force staff bloodseeker is gimmicky (ulti then forcestaff). But then again, the hero is bad so it doesn't matter what items he goes. Ancients medusa sucks, don't know why people keep doing it. Not only is the gpm bad, but it's very easy to stop as well. | ||
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:37 Vaelone wrote: Well the entire hero is a pub thing but here is NTH going Bloodseeker with everyone having Force Staffs. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BaLE9TKZLk It's purely so that when you use rupture, if they stop moving it deals little to no damage, so you force them to move by force staffing. | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:33 NasKe_ wrote: Hey guys, what is this shit about Blood seeker going force staff? Is a legite thing? I've seen in almost every pub. But for me sounds ridiculous. What do you think? And that Medusa on Anciant? Looks bullshit to me, such a low GPM. Its worse on him since the nerf to fstaff but its still legit. Not that bs is legit at all anyway. it works with his ult and it can give him an escape, thats really all there is to it. | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:47 Shaella wrote: Am I correct in thinking that the only sane max for Spectre is Desolate? Do you mean what to max first? I've seen Aui play Spectre, and he maxes Dagger over Desolate, and then dispersion (no points in dispersion until 10). I think its situational, but part of me has trouble skipping dispersion in active games. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:47 Shaella wrote: Am I correct in thinking that the only sane max for Spectre is Desolate? It is most common to max Dagger first. Dagger first builds also have the highest winrate in pubs according to http://dotabuff.com/heroes/spectre/skills (although these stats can be biased etc...) | ||
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On April 06 2013 01:51 Comeh wrote: Do you mean what to max first? I've seen Aui play Spectre, and he maxes Dagger over Desolate, and then dispersion (no points in dispersion until 10). I think its situational, but part of me has trouble skipping dispersion in active games. Yeah I mean what to max first I think not maxing Dispersion is silly.. Its 10% more survival with just a single point put in, thats pretty good with just one point. Each point in desolate makes you do a lot more damage with each attack, and lets you be more dangerous around the map by haunting. Dagger is... Pretty weak in my opinion, even at max rank its 200 mana, its got a high mana cost, of course it lets you chase like heck but still. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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Shaella
United States14828 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:00 crms wrote: Dagger lets you have early kill potential and show some sembelance of being worthwhile before 25 minutes. It's also a much better escape for surviving than dispersion in the early game when you're trying to farm up. Its 200 damage. Thats pretty pathetic, its only really worth skilling at all for the MS steal. I think Desolate gives you more kill potential | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7596 Posts
Desolate is only useful past level 1-2 if there is just insane skirmishes going down for you to actually use it. Otherwise, why not Dagger? You gain 4% and 5% movement speed per level, I think that is way more important than any damage. Either in chasing(can't get the desolate bonus if you never get an auto attack off) and of course escaping. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:01 Shaella wrote: Its 200 damage. Thats pretty pathetic, its only really worth skilling at all for the MS steal. I think Desolate gives you more kill potential It doesn't and it's also not guaranteed damage like dagger. This whole scenario is built around lv7ish, early game silliness. Dagger nuke + move speed boost + enemy slow, gives the most kill potential and survivability of all her skills. A max desolate over dagger would take 3 auto attacks (with no enemies around) to equal the dmg of just the dagger. Not only are you going to get the initial burst dmg from the dagger hit, you're going to get in a ton of auto attacks afterward because of the mechanic. The only way I could see desolate first would be if you were guaranteed a 1v1 lane early game without any threats of ganks etc because the harass potential would be very high. Of course all builds are situational around picks, lanes etc., but dagger first is the 'standard' and I think there is a good reason for that. It gives you the most kill potential, best escape and can be used as a CS mechanic. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:12 crms wrote: It doesn't and it's also not guaranteed damage like dagger. This whole scenario is built around lv7ish, early game silliness. Dagger nuke + move speed boost + enemy slow, gives the most kill potential and survivability of all her skills. A max desolate over dagger would take 3 auto attacks (with no enemies around) to equal the dmg of just the dagger. Not only are you going to get the initial burst dmg from the dagger hit, you're going to get in a ton of auto attacks afterward because of the mechanic. The only way I could see desolate first would be if you were guaranteed a 1v1 lane early game without any threats of ganks etc because the harass potential would be very high. Of course all builds are situational around picks, lanes etc., but dagger first is the 'standard' and I think there is a good reason for that. It gives you the most kill potential, best escape and can be used as a CS mechanic. There also seems to be some assumption that you WONT be putting points into desolate when you are putting points into dagger - you'll still have desolate, it will just be a few points less of damage because you maxed dagger. | ||
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Delphiki
Philippines1955 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:15 Comeh wrote: There also seems to be some assumption that you WONT be putting points into desolate when you are putting points into dagger - you'll still have desolate, it will just be a few points less of damage because you maxed dagger. To be honest I never had played with a spectre maxing desolate over dagger. Also it is a lot helpful early game(which spectre is very shitty at) than any of her skills Just remember, when in doubt, max your nuke | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:01 Shaella wrote: Its 200 damage. Thats pretty pathetic, its only really worth skilling at all for the MS steal. I think Desolate gives you more kill potential And the MS steal scales pretty aggressively. 5% MS steal is like 15 MS. 18% MS steal is like 50. Spectre has 295 base MS. Most practical off-laners have 310-315 MS and/or some mobility skill. Rank 1 dagger just barely gets you to catch up to their base MS. Dispersion as a skill has value primarily when your HP pool is large, because it's effective damage/EHP increase is a multiplier on your HP. Unless you're aggressively buying HP early and not damage (Vanguard, etc.), it's effectiveness is quite low until your first major survivability item (usually Heart) and by then you usually have all 3 skills maxed anyway. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 06 2013 02:50 TheYango wrote: And the MS steal scales pretty aggressively. 5% MS steal is like 15 MS. 18% MS steal is like 50. Spectre has 295 base MS. Most practical off-laners have 310-315 MS and/or some mobility skill. Rank 1 dagger just barely gets you to catch up to their base MS. Just curious, but I thought it worked as such - Spectre's movement speed is increased by 18%. Target's movement speed is decreated by 18%. It's not a true "steal", right? (sorry, semantics messing with my brain atm) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
EDIT: The other thing to keep in mind with Dagger is that while 200 damage is low, you're only looking at the usefulness of the *final rank*. 50 damage + increased slow % per rank is actually pretty normal when it comes to AoE nukes. It's just that the rank 1 damage of Dagger is much lower than many other AoE nukes (rank 1 Dagger is only 50 damage, many other AoE nukes start with 90-150 rank 1 damage). So while the incremental gain of going from no ranks to 1 rank of Dagger looks bad, the incremental gain of going rank 1 to rank 2, rank 2 to rank 3, and rank 3 to rank 4 is actually normal compared to other nukes. | ||
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