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Rybka
United States836 Posts
On March 24 2013 12:13 teapoted wrote: They've already confirmed there will be at least 2 more. I don't know what the profit/loss is on running The International, but I think it would be a big mistake to stop doing them. The quality is so high... it's just too good of a draw for DotA. Not to mention the other products on steam. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Lost 8 of them. How the hell do you farm fast enough to really take advantage of him. I have the exp advantage (always 3-4 levels ahead. I'll be level 16, they'll be 13). But I still find myself dying to any hero with Battlefury extremely fast (even if I micro.) I also find BKB still completely wrecks me as it let's them take me down pretty fast unhindered (I guess that's expected). I usually have three meepos separated. Two in lane, one jungling and all farming pretty poorly (apparently). Should I skip Aghanim's and just get Drums instead? Right now it's: PMS -> Tranquil -> Treads -> Vlad's -> Meka -> Aghanim's -> Heart. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 24 2013 12:59 Torte de Lini wrote: I've played a total of 10 meepo games. Lost 8 of them. How the hell do you farm fast enough to really take advantage of him. I have the exp advantage (always 3-4 levels ahead. I'll be level 16, they'll be 13). But I still find myself dying to any hero with Battlefury extremely fast (even if I micro.) I also find BKB still completely wrecks me as it let's them take me down pretty fast unhindered (I guess that's expected). I usually have three meepos separated. Two in lane, one jungling and all farming pretty poorly (apparently). Should I skip Aghanim's and just get Drums instead? Right now it's: PMS -> Tranquil -> Treads -> Vlad's -> Meka -> Aghanim's -> Heart. skip vlads | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On March 24 2013 11:43 teapoted wrote: Valve have seen how much something like the marketplace can profit content creators in a game and want eSports to be similar. I believe the monetization of tickets is just the beginning, and as Valve have stated, pennants were really just a test done in a bit of a rush before TI2. And tournaments haven't really explored tickets a lot either. TD was the first with bundled items. TPL is probably the first ones that come along and did a little advertisement video for their courier with the ticket and they have it up on their stream all the time and play ads for it on the stream. And TPL is a significantly smaller tournament than TD in terms of viewership, but yet TPL has sold at least 8200 tickets, and TD have sold at least 9500. But there's still a lot more that you can do to sell tickets. Better advertising is the obvious thing, but you could even have an alternative audio stream in game which is just a couple of random pro players that talk about the game. Or bundle pennants for the teams in the tournament. Or promise like 10% of ticket sales go to prize pool. Or do give-aways to ticket holders as you would subscribers. These are all things that would increase sales of tickets. I wouldn't be surprised if a major (western) league that really pushed it could sell 15-20,000 tickets currently. And this will scale along with Dota viewership, which Sponsorship doesn't necessarily. I personally think that people paying directly in one way or another is the easiest route to grow Dota. Because ad-revenue isn't good enough and major sponsorships are hard to find and somewhat unreliable. IMO if anything, the ticket sale system is making thing too easy for organizers to make money. The setup for online tournaments is minimal, and the stream revenue + ticket sale is quite good. To have good income, organizers have to appeal to the audience, and as the result, we have a bunch of generic online, invitational tournaments with the same teams and same casters. Hell, I watched Navi vs Empire, and 2,3 hours later, there's another Navi vs Empire again, casted by different casters, some time the same casters. With the ticket sale system, it's no doubt that the organizers can make good income, therefore keeping the tournaments open, but on the other hand, we have some other problems: - There's no incentive to run a LAN events. Without sponsors, there's no reason to run a LAN events because you're gonna burn your pocket without getting much in return. - Small teams have hard time to break out, because most online tournaments are full or half invitational. - There's no incentive to search for real sponsors. You rarely hear the casters thank the sponsors anymore. Even though some tournaments have sponsors, you don't really hear they promoting the products or brand name, the most you can see is the slapped sticker on somewhere. - Teams lose identity, lose sponsors. Although organizers make good money, teams are not. Because of the nature of online tournaments, teams don't have chance to promote their sponsors, don't have chance to show their personality. Right now, the format of most tournament is: Idle/waiting page -> casters introduce/talk -> game -> idle/waiting page. There's no room to promote teams, sponsors. Right now, I think it's too easy to run an online dota2 tournament, and the return is great. Hell, I hope TL start to organize 2,3 tournaments soon, so that they can make enough money to have a dota2 TeamLiquid.cn or TeamLiquid.kor or something. Or hell, I think Yango should start to organize a tournament too. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Main_Page 8 tournaments ongoing, only 3 are LAN events. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki 12 tournaments ongoing, only 2 are online events. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
I'm just going to point out that all of the big money making tournaments from tickets have yet to finish. Tickets didn't earn anyone a lot of money before TD3, so the fact that you think any of the problems is because tournaments have it easy making money is just flat out wrong because all the tournaments you're watching is the result of the old formula. 1. The incentive for LAN events is even less if tournaments have no money, not having tickets isn't going to magically make sponsors appear. What you can do with the money you gain from tickets might make them appear. SL was a LAN before they had tickets, it's a LAN after they have tickets. 2. Small teams break out online all the time and there are many tournaments for them to play in, unlike if Dota was more LAN heavy which would make it significantly harder for new teams. 3. Most tournaments don't earn anything from tickets, the search for sponsorship or trying to please them is no different than before. 4. This has nothing to do with tickets, that's just bad stream production. In fact ticket based business models allows for more promotion of teams rather than less because there's no conflict of sponsors. This is up to tournaments either way, and has nothing to do with tickets. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 24 2013 13:09 Torte de Lini wrote: I find it a lot easier to reach than Aghanim's. yes, but what does it actually do for you? not much, except make solo roshan possible at level 11 | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
- There's no incentive to search for real sponsors. You rarely hear the casters thank the sponsors anymore. Even though some tournaments have sponsors, you don't really hear they promoting the products or brand name, the most you can see is the slapped sticker on somewhere. how is this a bad thing? Don't we want tournament organizations to be less dependent on sponsors? For teams, I definitely see the importance and I think everyone here knows that Valve is definitely aiming to step up the amount of possibilities for the teams to make some money as well through the in-game store, etc. Less LANs is also unfortunate, but unsurprising given how much less valued it is today than it was in the past. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 24 2013 13:24 rabidch wrote: yes, but what does it actually do for you? not much, except make solo roshan possible at level 11 I thought it gave me needed lifesteal, some early-game (is it early-game?) armor and minor mana regen. Let's me wrap up what items I had from Tranquil. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
And don't just farm(unless your team protects you) only, after you get your core(blink or meka) go hunt with your main meepo and keep farming neutrals with the others. You get lots and lots of gold and xp. | ||
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Delphiki
Philippines1955 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On March 24 2013 13:26 Torte de Lini wrote: I thought it gave me needed lifesteal, some early-game (is it early-game?) armor and minor mana regen. Let's me wrap up what items I had from Tranquil. you dont need lifesteal... armor and regen comes from mek, which you can use the ror from tranquils for that. only the ring of protection isnt used, but its negligible | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
53-minute game and Sven wrecked me easily. During the early-phase, it was Viper and Disruptor and I died 3 times since they left me solo. Managed to get all the way to heart by 40 minutes I believe. Pretty bad. I feel like I won't do any real damage with Poof unless all my meepos are there and poofing there too. Otherwise, it's just half the damage. | ||
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Pseudoku
Canada1279 Posts
On March 24 2013 13:54 Delphiki wrote: Does backtrack proc on bash? IIRC Backtrack only prevents damage, not effects. | ||
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ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
On March 24 2013 15:35 Torte de Lini wrote: Just lost another: 2/13/12 53-minute game and Sven wrecked me easily. During the early-phase, it was Viper and Disruptor and I died 3 times since they left me solo. Managed to get all the way to heart by 40 minutes I believe. Pretty bad. I feel like I won't do any real damage with Poof unless all my meepos are there and poofing there too. Otherwise, it's just half the damage. I wouldnt be expecting you to win a lane vs Viper and Disruptor... Especially not solo. Poison and that slow circle (disrupt) pretty much = a death. | ||
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On March 24 2013 15:35 Torte de Lini wrote: Just lost another: 2/13/12 53-minute game and Sven wrecked me easily. During the early-phase, it was Viper and Disruptor and I died 3 times since they left me solo. Managed to get all the way to heart by 40 minutes I believe. Pretty bad. I feel like I won't do any real damage with Poof unless all my meepos are there and poofing there too. Otherwise, it's just half the damage. If you don't have support you should try to get mid lane and farm to 6 with poof+bottle (since they left you solo I'm guessing it was offlane? Offlane meepo is pretty shit regardless of good you are at him lol). In any case, Meepo requires you to put in a lot more effort to carry a game than most right click carries. You should probably expect to lose most of your games until you are proficient enough with him to be able consistently hit good item timings regardless of the rest of your team. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 24 2013 13:11 canikizu wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Main_Page 8 tournaments ongoing, only 3 are LAN events. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/League_of_Legends_Wiki 12 tournaments ongoing, only 2 are online events. This is misleading because if you look at the rosters for those tournaments, most of the League tournaments are local tournaments for middle-to-lower tier teams. A bunch of them are filled with teams that are so unknown that they don't even have their own Leaguepedia articles. DotA 2 also has some of those local LANs but by and large they don't get as much community coverage, and I'm pretty sure Liquipedia isn't as active about listing those minor tournaments. Only EU LCS, NA LCS, GPL, and LPL are actually "major" tournaments in that they have top-of-their-region teams in it. And Riot has more or less assimilated many of the previous smaller tournaments into LCS (for example MLG is now more or less just LCS teams playing their LCS matches at the MLG venue rather than it's own tournament), which is why it doesn't feel like those teams are competing in a bunch of different events. They WERE until Riot more or less assimilated/consolidated (depending on which verb you feel is more appropriate) everything into one league. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On March 24 2013 15:56 RuskiPanda wrote: If you don't have support you should try to get mid lane and farm to 6 with poof+bottle (since they left you solo I'm guessing it was offlane? Offlane meepo is pretty shit regardless of good you are at him lol). In any case, Meepo requires you to put in a lot more effort to carry a game than most right click carries. You should probably expect to lose most of your games until you are proficient enough with him to be able consistently hit good item timings regardless of the rest of your team. Yeah, that's probably going to happen. I'll accept the losses (no mule accounts or anything). | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8923 Posts
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