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On March 21 2013 07:47 AwfuL_ wrote:I'd like to have a discussion, but I'm not sure where it belongs so I'll just put it here. + Show Spoiler +I'm not too familiar with how the TL forums work, but every topic in the Dota 2 General forum seems to be a news or article discussion topic and not any other subject. So I guess a call to discussion belongs in this topic? Anyway, this is about 'the server issue'. I'm not looking to start some NA vs EU debate! I'm simply wondering: what caused the current public outcry about teams winning on certain servers, as well as players blaming their losses on having to play on a 'bad' server? I've been following competitive Dota 2 very actively since the first International. I was there for the first Defense, with the epic DD vs Na'Vi finals. I was there during the rise of FIRE (later coL), starting with their Dota2Replays Brawl controversy, to them winning The Defense 2. I watched every season of The Premier League, most of the Starladder seasons, and the various It's Gosu tourneys. Yet never during all that time have I noticed a public discussion about server issues, at least not related to NA and EU teams. The only time I ever heard about it was in relation to Chinese and SEA teams not participating in international online tournaments due to the obvious issue of unplayably high ping. All this whining about 'NA teams can only win on USE, and lose every game on EU', all the discussion about NA teams supposedly 'getting an unfair advantage' due to most of these matches being played on USE, where did it come from? When did it start? It seems to me to be something of the last two months orso. I simply cannot seem to remember it being a topic of discussion before that. Am I going crazy, or is this just some trend, a controversy that viewers, players, managers and newswriters have now seemingly embraced en masse? When did this go from something that tournament admins and teams hid behind closed doors to a public issue?
It was all started by H4nni after they dropped a series to TL, he was bitching about it during the whole TD3 TL vs Mouz series that ended with the glorious rapier gyro taking down blacks PL.
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He's going to say that he didn't mean that they wouldn't go to China to play in tournaments, but that they wouldn't go to China for an extended bootcamp akin to LGD.int.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Well, if you start at the beginning, there were tournaments with EU, NA, SEA and Chinese teams all at the same time playing each other, and we liked it, because it was all we got. Then that stopped and there was N9/aL playing in the EU tournaments and that stopped too. Now, US to EU, pro players are not too excited to play just anything because there's so many tournaments, so they're getting vocal about the issue. I'm one of the viewers who discussed it a lot, and to be frank I just thought it was not fair, so I actively started discussions about it, because I thought it was needed to be discussed.
Why are the viewers and pro players not happy playing SEA teams anymore? The scene is growing, the teams can actually start being picky about under what conditions they are willing to be playing. The quality and the amount of online tournaments has risen over the time.
edit: I read my post again and it doesn't make much sense even to me. But yeah... there you go, that's my 2 cents on this.
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On March 21 2013 07:47 AwfuL_ wrote:I'd like to have a discussion, but I'm not sure where it belongs so I'll just put it here. + Show Spoiler +I'm not too familiar with how the TL forums work, but every topic in the Dota 2 General forum seems to be a news or article discussion topic and not any other subject. So I guess a call to discussion belongs in this topic? Anyway, this is about 'the server issue'. I'm not looking to start some NA vs EU debate! I'm simply wondering: what caused the current public outcry about teams winning on certain servers, as well as players blaming their losses on having to play on a 'bad' server? I've been following competitive Dota 2 very actively since the first International. I was there for the first Defense, with the epic DD vs Na'Vi finals. I was there during the rise of FIRE (later coL), starting with their Dota2Replays Brawl controversy, to them winning The Defense 2. I watched every season of The Premier League, most of the Starladder seasons, and the various It's Gosu tourneys. Yet never during all that time have I noticed a public discussion about server issues, at least not related to NA and EU teams. The only time I ever heard about it was in relation to Chinese and SEA teams not participating in international online tournaments due to the obvious issue of unplayably high ping. All this whining about 'NA teams can only win on USE, and lose every game on EU', all the discussion about NA teams supposedly 'getting an unfair advantage' due to most of these matches being played on USE, where did it come from? When did it start? It seems to me to be something of the last two months orso. I simply cannot seem to remember it being a topic of discussion before that. Am I going crazy, or is this just some trend, a controversy that viewers, players, managers and newswriters have now seemingly embraced en masse? When did this go from something that tournament admins and teams hid behind closed doors to a public issue?
Feel free to make a new topic in the general disscussion, its probably better there
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
So RoX.KIS lost Sharfik today and replaced him by Solo 30 minutes ago. Dread and his teams is the best comedy show ever.
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On March 21 2013 08:26 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 07:47 AwfuL_ wrote:I'd like to have a discussion, but I'm not sure where it belongs so I'll just put it here. + Show Spoiler +I'm not too familiar with how the TL forums work, but every topic in the Dota 2 General forum seems to be a news or article discussion topic and not any other subject. So I guess a call to discussion belongs in this topic? Anyway, this is about 'the server issue'. I'm not looking to start some NA vs EU debate! I'm simply wondering: what caused the current public outcry about teams winning on certain servers, as well as players blaming their losses on having to play on a 'bad' server? I've been following competitive Dota 2 very actively since the first International. I was there for the first Defense, with the epic DD vs Na'Vi finals. I was there during the rise of FIRE (later coL), starting with their Dota2Replays Brawl controversy, to them winning The Defense 2. I watched every season of The Premier League, most of the Starladder seasons, and the various It's Gosu tourneys. Yet never during all that time have I noticed a public discussion about server issues, at least not related to NA and EU teams. The only time I ever heard about it was in relation to Chinese and SEA teams not participating in international online tournaments due to the obvious issue of unplayably high ping. All this whining about 'NA teams can only win on USE, and lose every game on EU', all the discussion about NA teams supposedly 'getting an unfair advantage' due to most of these matches being played on USE, where did it come from? When did it start? It seems to me to be something of the last two months orso. I simply cannot seem to remember it being a topic of discussion before that. Am I going crazy, or is this just some trend, a controversy that viewers, players, managers and newswriters have now seemingly embraced en masse? When did this go from something that tournament admins and teams hid behind closed doors to a public issue? Feel free to make a new topic in the general disscussion, its probably better there
That's somewhat confusing because this is the general discussion thread inside of the Dota 2 General forum. We had a thread about this topic a while back and we were told to keep discussion of server ping in that thread (it initially had a sensationalist title that got changed).
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Tranquil boots now break when you're jungling, except for very low attack damage camps, like they do in Dota 1.
Boooo. I didn't want this bug to be fixed XD
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Are you saying Tranquils break to neutral creep damage too? That doesn't seem...intended...
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On March 21 2013 08:41 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are you saying Tranquils break to neutral creep damage too? That doesn't seem...intended...
In wc3 they break if the hit does over 20 damage, even if it is from a neutral creep. From what ch33psh33p is saying they finally got around to implementing parity.
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On March 21 2013 08:41 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are you saying Tranquils break to neutral creep damage too? That doesn't seem...intended...
Its always been a bug in Dota 2 that they DIDNT break from neutral creep or enemy creep damage.
They're supposed to break on anything over 20 damage.
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On March 21 2013 07:57 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 07:47 AwfuL_ wrote:I'd like to have a discussion, but I'm not sure where it belongs so I'll just put it here. + Show Spoiler +I'm not too familiar with how the TL forums work, but every topic in the Dota 2 General forum seems to be a news or article discussion topic and not any other subject. So I guess a call to discussion belongs in this topic? Anyway, this is about 'the server issue'. I'm not looking to start some NA vs EU debate! I'm simply wondering: what caused the current public outcry about teams winning on certain servers, as well as players blaming their losses on having to play on a 'bad' server? I've been following competitive Dota 2 very actively since the first International. I was there for the first Defense, with the epic DD vs Na'Vi finals. I was there during the rise of FIRE (later coL), starting with their Dota2Replays Brawl controversy, to them winning The Defense 2. I watched every season of The Premier League, most of the Starladder seasons, and the various It's Gosu tourneys. Yet never during all that time have I noticed a public discussion about server issues, at least not related to NA and EU teams. The only time I ever heard about it was in relation to Chinese and SEA teams not participating in international online tournaments due to the obvious issue of unplayably high ping. All this whining about 'NA teams can only win on USE, and lose every game on EU', all the discussion about NA teams supposedly 'getting an unfair advantage' due to most of these matches being played on USE, where did it come from? When did it start? It seems to me to be something of the last two months orso. I simply cannot seem to remember it being a topic of discussion before that. Am I going crazy, or is this just some trend, a controversy that viewers, players, managers and newswriters have now seemingly embraced en masse? When did this go from something that tournament admins and teams hid behind closed doors to a public issue? It was all started by H4nni after they dropped a series to TL, he was bitching about it during the whole TD3 TL vs Mouz series that ended with the glorious rapier gyro taking down blacks PL.
Pretty much, a couple lower tier Euro teams blaming losses on pings and then the upcry from the fans of those teams.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1.
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On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1.
You should still be able to tank lane creeps with them since they give three armor. The 20 damage threshold is after reductions. No more jungling with tranquils active though as the bigger creeps do a lot more than 20 damage.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
I'll take your word for it, I'm not exactly sure how they work with this change.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1.
Ehh, I wouldn't say a LOT.
IIRC the original bug was Tranquil Boots heal breaking based on damage source rather than damage amount. This means that neutrals wouldn't break Tranquil Boots healing regardless of damage amount. But at the same time, it also meant that under-threshold damage from player sources (and towers if your armor was high enough) WAS disabling the heal when it's not supposed to.
So it's really a sidegrade. Certain hard camp creeps now disable Tranquils when they didn't before. But player-based sources that do less than the threshold damage also don't disable it now (e.g. Ion Shell), which is a buff.
On March 21 2013 08:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1. You should still be able to tank lane creeps with them since they give three armor. The 20 damage threshold is after reductions. No more jungling with tranquils active though as the bigger creeps do a lot more than 20 damage.
Only certain hard camps do enough damage to pass the threshold I think. And you can just do those camps while the Tranquil active is on CD.
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I had a game where (my team believes) that our centaur was a noob. He picked the wrong skills(?) (went to getting return to level 4). was like leeroy jenkins and head on first. tp'd on when the tower was being pushed etc.
my question is
is it justified to report when someone is a noob or beginner?
doesn't listend (or undestands) orders too
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On March 21 2013 08:59 icystorage wrote:
I had a game where (my team believes) that our centaur was a noob. He picked the wrong skills(?) (went to getting return to level 4). was like leeroy jenkins and head on first. tp'd on when the tower was being pushed etc.
my question is
is it justified to report when someone is a noob or beginner?
doesn't listend (or undestands) orders too
If someone doesn't listen to what I tell (or doesn't even attempt to) then yeah, I report.
Don't report people for being bad though, everyone has bad days.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1. Ehh, I wouldn't say a LOT. IIRC the original bug was Tranquil Boots heal breaking based on damage source rather than damage amount. This means that neutrals wouldn't break Tranquil Boots healing regardless of damage amount. But at the same time, it also meant that under-threshold damage from player sources WAS disabling the heal when it's not supposed to. So it's really a sidegrade. Certain hard camp creeps now disable Tranquils when they didn't before. But player-based sources that do less than the threshold damage also don't disable it now (e.g. Ion Shell), which is a buff.
My initial interpretation of the change was wrong, thinking that any damage received at all (from lane creeps/neutral creeps as well) canceled the heal. If the threshold is still there and now even introduced for enemy hero damage, then it certainly isn't as bad a nerf as I originally thought it was.
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On March 21 2013 08:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1. Ehh, I wouldn't say a LOT. IIRC the original bug was Tranquil Boots heal breaking based on damage source rather than damage amount. This means that neutrals wouldn't break Tranquil Boots healing regardless of damage amount. But at the same time, it also meant that under-threshold damage from player sources (and towers if your armor was high enough) WAS disabling the heal when it's not supposed to. So it's really a sidegrade. Certain hard camp creeps now disable Tranquils when they didn't before. But player-based sources that do less than the threshold damage also don't disable it now (e.g. Ion Shell), which is a buff. Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 08:54 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 21 2013 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
That was a pretty huge bug in Dota 2 then, making Tranquils a LOT stronger than they were in Dota 1. You should still be able to tank lane creeps with them since they give three armor. The 20 damage threshold is after reductions. No more jungling with tranquils active though as the bigger creeps do a lot more than 20 damage. Only certain hard camps do enough damage to pass the threshold I think. And you can just do those camps while the Tranquil active is on CD.
All the hard camps should break it. The medium camps might be tankable since they do about thirty damage before damage type/armor reductions.
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United States47024 Posts
I just checked. All hard camp large creeps except the Dark Troll Warlord (both Furbolgs, Centaur Khan, Satyr Hellcaller, Enraged Wildkin) do enough damage to break Tranquil heal due to doing Chaos damage. The Dark Troll Warlord does Piercing damage, so he doesn't do enough to break the heal unless you have really low armor (he has 49-55 Piercing damage, but Tranquils gives you 3 armor, so you have to have less than 2 armor by the time you have Tranquils for him to be able to break the heal).
Among medium camps, the aforementioned Centaur Khan, as well as Alpha Wolf crits, do enough to break Tranquils.
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EPT
