|
|
On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix.
Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance.
Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so.
|
You guys are a bunch of unbearable whining sissies. Stop talking balance, the balance changes are already decided by Ice
|
On March 13 2013 05:13 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:10 SKC wrote:On March 13 2013 05:00 cecek wrote:
I can't help but laugh. The current dominant carry is always the worse thing to ever happen to DotA, abut the previous ones were always fun, apparently. People's memory is interesting. It happened with Medusa, Drow, Alchemist, Spectre, Antimage, Morphling now PL. I think a diference between PL and the previous recent "OP" carries is that he isn't even picked all that much. Morphling was bad in TI2 because he was picked almost every single game, AM was also banned or picked almost every game when he was considered anti-fun. PL is hardly ever banned and not picked reasonably often. For me PL was always very annoying to play against, even when he sucked. It was the kind of hero that would be fun to see ocasionally, just because seeing diferent heroes are fun, but definatelly not one I would ever ask to see very often. According to Dota-Academy, he was picked less often than Luna, Sylla, Gyro and Naix since the start of february. If you look at very recent games only, Luna and Sylla fall down a bit, but Gyro and Naix are still much more popular. Something to consider How many games in which PL was picked, did the team also have Kotl?
Well, yeah, that's part of it. But it also goes hand in hand with what I said. People always complain about the carry of the month, but PL isn't it. The Kotl + PL rage isn't about how often they are picked, it's just the nature of the duo. You see Kotl + PL even less often than just PL. And their winrate isnt even that high, 54% overall, but I don't how if that would change if you only looked at recent games.
I feel the Kotl PL hate is similar to the Sven hate. Neither was really dominant, but the games where they were picked had some really annoying circunstances that gave them their reputation.
|
On March 13 2013 05:00 cecek wrote:
I can't help but laugh. The current dominant carry is always the worse thing to ever happen to DotA, abut the previous ones were always fun, apparently. People's memory is interesting. It happened with Medusa, Drow, Alchemist, Spectre, Antimage, Morphling now PL.
You know even when medusa was relatively active in the meta game, she was hard countered by anti mage right?
|
On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so.
Maybe his agi gain is a bit high?
But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold
PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl.
|
On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl.
Gyro crushes PL.
|
On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl.
I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit).
I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not.
|
On March 13 2013 05:23 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. Gyro crushes PL.
Yeah. Gyro is really strong against PL too
Luna less so, cause her eclipse gets screw'd
|
PL is just annoying and boring to play against. I don't consider him nearly as OP as the first round/first pick heroes which usually end up being magnus, kotl, nyx, and batrider.
Also china considers gyro really weak. I don't trust western meta until I see someone play an actual serious game. The types of games the western scene is playing is not international level dota. Watching LGD.int and iG play reminded me of how real high stakes dota was played.
|
On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not.
I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason.
|
On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason.
I agree - its just interesting that EU seems afraid to do anything about him. I guess we'll see once TI3 comes around - I think that will determine his fate.
|
On March 13 2013 05:28 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason. I agree - its just interesting that EU seems afraid to do anything about him. I guess we'll see once TI3 comes around - I think that will determine his fate.
Well, Wisp is a hero that heavily punishes any positioning mistakes, i think the biggest thing is if you 5man, which china tends to do a bit early, she's basically a wasted hero
|
people that think naix and sylla need nerfs arent getting the right heroes to own them
honestly they are fine
|
Possibly not the best place to ask, but I'm hopeful anyway.
When i try to watch replays in-game, I crash to the desktop within a minute of watching (i'm able to load the game and watch for a few seconds). Similarly, I crash a lot while playing, but it's very sporadic (1-2 crashes a game, sometimes none). I've always crashed occasionally, but the consistency of crashing during replays is a new thing, and has made dotatv unwatchable. I've read a bunch on the topic and I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a similar situation (or have possible fixes)? I'm running Windows XP 32 bit.
|
United States47024 Posts
On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason.
The same is true of Gyro, though. Neither team gave the hero a second look at G-League finals.
|
On March 13 2013 05:30 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason. The same is true of Gyro, though. Neither team gave the hero a second look at G-League finals.
I don't fully understand why china doesn't value gyro higher. I'd like to though.
|
United States47024 Posts
Compare Gyro to Luna. They are similar heroes, but have distinct advantages that make one more favorable than the other in the regions where they're more commonly played (Gyro is picked far more often than Luna in the West while the opposite is true in China). Gyro is stronger than Luna in gank/solo kill scenarios (two long-range nukes/disables that assist/set up ganks very well, Barrage is strong in Xv1 scenarios where you can safely approach to use it), while Luna is stronger in early 5-man DotA (aura for pushing/teamfighting power, powerful teamfight ultimate, Lucent Beam has longer effective range than Rocket Barrage making it less unwieldy in big fights). The former has a lot of usefulness in Western games for punishing errors and overextending the same way Wisp does, but in the cleaner 5-man oriented play of Chinese DotA, Luna is more useful.
|
On March 13 2013 05:32 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:30 TheYango wrote:On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason. The same is true of Gyro, though. Neither team gave the hero a second look at G-League finals. I don't fully understand why china doesn't value gyro higher. I'd like to though.
mediocre early-mid game reliant on opponents making mistakes. late game that is entirely reliant on bkb. Beastmaster and other characters that do well against gyro are popular.
|
On March 13 2013 05:30 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason. The same is true of Gyro, though. Neither team gave the hero a second look at G-League finals.
Why are people so uptight about the pro scene, the fact that gyro wasn't picked in the g league finals doesn't indicate nothing about the hero expect that he was not pick during that specific tournament.
|
On March 13 2013 05:40 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 05:30 TheYango wrote:On March 13 2013 05:25 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:23 Comeh wrote:On March 13 2013 05:21 Shaella wrote:On March 13 2013 05:16 Haee wrote:On March 13 2013 05:07 Shaella wrote:
PL isn't even the dominant carry in the comp scene. That by far goes to Gyro, Sylla, and Naix. Gyro, Lone Druid and Naix can either contribute earlier in the game or have versatile laning options. Naix can dominate tri-lanes because of his rage, Lone Druid can off lane successfully and so on. PL on the other hand needs his farm and levels (dat 4.2 agi gain) to be of significance. Is that to say PL is fine? I don't think so. Maybe his agi gain is a bit high? But the only reason PL is being played is because he's pretty much the only hard carry that can fight early enough to deal with the crazy midgame carries like Gyro/naix/LD/Luna. We see less and less Antimage because antimage suffers from being trilaned against a lot more than PL does, and because Antimage often can't contribute to fights at all until he has bfury/manta up, whereas PL can contribute with just Drums/diffu, which is far less gold PL is a very small problem balance wise, and once again, he's RARELY picked unless the team also has Kotl. I agree. I think PL needs to be touched - but only a small change for him. Something rather small to fix him should be enough (I like the idea of nerfing one aspect of his ultimate a bit). I think Gyro (a small one), Naix, Nyx, and maybe batrider could use a nerf as well though (maybe a small one for LD as well). I'm undecided whether or not wisp is fine or not. I think wisp is fine in the comp scene, i mean he's not played in china for a reason. The same is true of Gyro, though. Neither team gave the hero a second look at G-League finals. Why are people so uptight about the pro scene, the fact that gyro wasn't picked in the g league finals doesn't indicate nothing about the hero expect that he was not pick during that specific tournament.
Chinese and Western Drafts have a history of being very different which can lead to some one region either over emphasizing a specific hero or vice versa.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
