General Discussion - Page 2316

On March 07 2013 14:59 Shaella wrote:

i disagree about the risk factor of Yasha, i don't think its nearly as high risk as you think, and i think it gives more reward than you believe.

Now, Drums is definately safer, but it offers less reward, especially going into late game as sooner or later you have to sell it off for something stronger, that's inefficient. I'm not saying Drums is always wrong, infact if I'm having a tough early game and feeling like I have to fight sooner, yeah, I'll totally go drums. But i feel like if you've had a solid lane phase, yasha is a great pickup that gives a lot of reward going forward into the midgame for the farm acceleration

On March 07 2013 15:16 Comeh wrote:

Drums is an item you get if you need to help with teamfights in the early game, or if you are running offensive trilane with a PL - its essentially half of a yasha and half of a Vit booster (and is really nice in early midgame teamfights). If you expect to be fighting more than farming, pick up the drums. Otherwise, grab yasha and diffusal (vit booster if you need it).

On March 07 2013 14:59 Shaella wrote:

i disagree about the risk factor of Yasha, i don't think its nearly as high risk as you think, and i think it gives more reward than you believe.

Now, Drums is definately safer, but it offers less reward, especially going into late game as sooner or later you have to sell it off for something stronger, that's inefficient. I'm not saying Drums is always wrong, infact if I'm having a tough early game and feeling like I have to fight sooner, yeah, I'll totally go drums. But i feel like if you've had a solid lane phase, yasha is a great pickup that gives a lot of reward going forward into the midgame for the farm acceleration

On March 07 2013 14:26 aintz wrote:


so dodge it is.

here is my noob profile

http://dotabuff.com/players/6988608



btw ian that furion build is unstoppable, its hard to lose games with furion.

On March 07 2013 15:22 Wysp wrote:



Thanks for disagreeing, but what exactly are the rewards of level 7 yasha over 2 blades of alacrity? You lose 4 damage and gain 7 IAS. The extra movement speed is quite nice but at this point your illusions cannot self perpetuate to benefit from the lifespan they save moving between camps, and you put yourself much further from diffusal blade which allows you to join fights if required, punish gankers who try to retreat and also purge dust/track/slar ult off of yourself.

Once you are level 11 having the yasha begins to have extremely tangible benefits, and even picking it up before vit booster can sometimes be nice. Your illusons now have a more significant juxtapose % and ontop of the stats you have gained from leveling up. You also have the extra agility from diffusal blade. I have not done the math on it but I know from experience yasha before level 11 will not allow your illusions to be an self sustaining swarm, and even at level 11 you need some extra agility ontop of it.

If you wanna go yasha first and get one extra jungle camp every 2 minutes, that's a pretty low reward compared to the potential reward of diffusal blade, which is destroying many forms of truesight and securing kills.

On March 07 2013 15:22 Wysp wrote:



Thanks for disagreeing, but what exactly are the rewards of level 7 yasha over 2 blades of alacrity? You lose 4 damage and gain 7 IAS. The extra movement speed is quite nice but at this point your illusions cannot self perpetuate to benefit from the lifespan they save moving between camps, and you put yourself much further from diffusal blade which allows you to join fights if required, punish gankers who try to retreat and also purge dust/track/slar ult off of yourself.

Once you are level 11 having the yasha begins to have extremely tangible benefits, and even picking it up before vit booster can sometimes be nice. Your illusons now have a more significant juxtapose % and ontop of the stats you have gained from leveling up. You also have the extra agility from diffusal blade. I have not done the math on it but I know from experience yasha before level 11 will not allow your illusions to be an self sustaining swarm, and even at level 11 you need some extra agility ontop of it.

If you wanna go yasha first and get one extra jungle camp every 2 minutes, that's a pretty low reward compared to the potential reward of diffusal blade, which is destroying many forms of truesight and securing kills.


edit: what I mean about 1 extra jungle camp every 2 minutes. You are gonna be farming in one spot. if tier 1 tower is still up on bot lane and you push up to it and duck into the jungle yasha will indeed help you mop up camps quicker, and on radiant side you could even potentially farm 2 or 3 of them in 2 minutes with the extra MS. You make to the camps quicker and back to the lane quicker, always prioritizing not missing lane farm. If the tier 1 is down you are still gonna be farming either the lane or the jungle and the 4 damage to 7 IAS trade off still is basically null, and you are gonna clear any major area of it before respawn regardless.

On March 07 2013 15:34 Wysp wrote:
Yes you are right, I remembered it as being same IAS as MS. But regardless this isn't the part that helps you farm faster before level 11, its the MS allowing you to move more swiftly between lane and jungle camps. I also expanded gretly on my post which you may not of read yet.

Basically the jist is if you are gonna be left alone you've already won, so preparing for situations in which you might actully lose is way smarter.

On March 07 2013 15:37 Wysp wrote:
@comeh: yasha is not gonna help you farm the jungle faster than 2 alacrities. You already clear 2 mediums and 1 large in under a minute, and probably the small camp too if you get lucky juxtapose at large camp as radiant, or either medium as dire.

On March 07 2013 15:35 Shaella wrote:

Why? If you're preparing to lose, and building defensively, you're going to lose

If you're winning, its wise to seize the advantage and capitalize on it. It makes that gap larger and ensures that win

It totally is. The farming increase is pretty significant over 2 alacrities,

On March 07 2013 15:41 FinestHour wrote:
wat the hell no dota 2 stream

On March 07 2013 15:45 TheEmulator wrote:

Well, Painuser is streaming Dota 2.

edit: He's under others, but still featured.

On March 07 2013 15:51 BurningSera wrote:


i am watching this armageddon some singaporean tourney iirc!

On March 07 2013 15:42 BurningSera wrote:
Might as well go for a Drum rather than a an early yasha, yasha first on pl is probably a situational purchase where you were planning to do trans+radiance or naked boots radiance but suddenly the game turned bad (oppo party at your lane etc) so you think that you might as well spend that 2k-ish gold for a yasha.

Is about personal playstyle i guess, if i had 2k-ish gold i'd still rather go for a diffu , if it was my greedy day then i'll tp to a safer lane to farm that 3800 (and continue to useless to my team for the next 5-10mins). I really dont expect to have more than 15mins freefarm in pub nowadays, you would be laughing if you had 10mins free farm in the first place because i dont know why my games have become 'crush that safelane carry and we win' from the opponent side

And also, opponent almost always do dual heroes on hardlane vs our safelane nowadays-_- Doesnt help when you expect 99% chance of having bad pub support.

On March 07 2013 15:41 Wysp wrote:



Planning to lose? Positive thinking isnt the secret to success, its measuring opportunity cost of your decisions. have the potential to kill gankers or tp and help team is much greater than the little bit of extra farm a greedy build that counts on your team being totally dominate grants you.

edit;



Please explain more. I went into such great detail. Tell me how you are gonna clear jungle and push lane before level 11, or before yasha and 20 more agility.