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On March 07 2013 13:15 hunts wrote:
I see, so then lance spam isnt really needed for harassing people out of your lane so you can farm, and for farming jungle faster? Also do you put points in stats before more points in illusions?
You don't need to force people out of lane, once you have tranquils, their harass is pretty much nothing.
I max lance first, and juxtapose second, the more illusions you ahve, the faster you can farm, and the easier it is for you to push out a lane with illusions
Ofc take phantom edge whenever you can
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yeah i don't like fast yasha pl
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On March 07 2013 13:19 Cool Cat wrote:
yeah i don't like fast yasha pl
Why?
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also i'm awful at dota so my opinion probably doesn't mean much but i think shaella is playing pl wrong
i'm pretty sure you max dopple or take 1 dopple and stats before you get juxtapose but what do i know
also lance owns not sure why you wouldn't spam it
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On March 07 2013 13:21 Cool Cat wrote:
also i'm awful at dota so my opinion probably doesn't mean much but i think shaella is playing pl wrong
i'm pretty sure you max dopple or take 1 dopple and stats before you get juxtapose but what do i know
also lance owns not sure why you wouldn't spam it
I'll explain.
1. Why would you max dopple? It offers nothing early game for you, one point is fine if you're feeling pressured, but often its not nessicary
2. Juxtapose accelerates your farm faster than stats, and they tank jungle creeps for you. So yeah.
3. Lance does own, but you don't need to spam it, and past the laning phase soul ring is 800 gold wasted, slowing down your carry by 800 gold is dumb.
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On March 07 2013 13:19 Shaella wrote:Why?
because you're giving up more useful items
it's 2/3 of a diffusal blade which is way more useful since diffusal increases your illusion damage by so much and has so much utility with purge
yasha gives no hp, and if you're going your max lance and juxtapose first build, then you're walking food
if you want the movespeed just get drums
the only point of fast yasha is to go manta first but that's awful i think
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On March 07 2013 13:23 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:21 Cool Cat wrote:
also i'm awful at dota so my opinion probably doesn't mean much but i think shaella is playing pl wrong
i'm pretty sure you max dopple or take 1 dopple and stats before you get juxtapose but what do i know
also lance owns not sure why you wouldn't spam it I'll explain. 1. Why would you max dopple? It offers nothing early game for you, one point is fine if you're feeling pressured, but often its not nessicary 2. Juxtapose accelerates your farm faster than stats, and they tank jungle creeps for you. So yeah. 3. Lance does own, but you don't need to spam it, and past the laning phase soul ring is 800 gold wasted, slowing down your carry by 800 gold is dumb.
leveling dopple lowers manacost and cd which makes it very useful as a farming skill. i personally like taking stats instead of leveling dopple though
your illusions really suck early game and you have no hp and you aren't even jungling for majority of the early game anyway
edit: i was just recommended by a pro player (truezsmjfans) to watch the pl played by pacific 2 right now
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On March 07 2013 13:23 Cool Cat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:19 Shaella wrote:On March 07 2013 13:19 Cool Cat wrote:
yeah i don't like fast yasha pl Why? because you're giving up more useful items it's 2/3 of a diffusal blade which is way more useful since diffusal increases your illusion damage by so much and has so much utility with purge yasha gives no hp, and if you're going your max lance and juxtapose first build, then you're walking food if you want the movespeed just get drums the only point of fast yasha is to go manta first but that's awful i think
Yasha is for accelerating farm. You talk about illusion damage, but PL shouldn't be fighting for the first 20-25 minutes of the game. Yasha is 2050 gold that gives you 32% attackspeed, which lets you farm faster and generate more images, it also gives damage and MOVESPEED that helps you and your illusions stick to enemies and get more hits in. Yasha's agi boost also helps your illusions do more. So yeah.
After yasha you go Diffusal, Diffusal is better the more attackspeed you have, so yasha naturally synergizes with it
Then you go manta, once you have diffu and manta, you farm absurdly fast, can splitpush insanely well, and most importantly, you can fight. Right there. Right now
The farm acceleration is absolutely vital to PL, and its where his real strength lies, he's a carry that comes online relatively fast, but doesn't need a bfury to do so, and thus doesn't need an AMAZING laning phase to farm crazy fast.
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On March 07 2013 13:25 Cool Cat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:23 Shaella wrote:On March 07 2013 13:21 Cool Cat wrote:
also i'm awful at dota so my opinion probably doesn't mean much but i think shaella is playing pl wrong
i'm pretty sure you max dopple or take 1 dopple and stats before you get juxtapose but what do i know
also lance owns not sure why you wouldn't spam it I'll explain. 1. Why would you max dopple? It offers nothing early game for you, one point is fine if you're feeling pressured, but often its not nessicary 2. Juxtapose accelerates your farm faster than stats, and they tank jungle creeps for you. So yeah. 3. Lance does own, but you don't need to spam it, and past the laning phase soul ring is 800 gold wasted, slowing down your carry by 800 gold is dumb. leveling dopple lowers manacost and cd which makes it very useful as a farming skill. i personally like taking stats instead of leveling dopple though your illusions really suck early game and you have no hp and you aren't even jungling for majority of the early game anyway
Leveling dopple is bad early. Just bad.
You should be jungling/laning at the same time once you have Yasha, their only job is to tank jungle creeps
As for sucking early game? Thier 25% of your damage > +2 damage from stats. Every.Time.
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The fast yasha was started by aui2000 and allows you to farm the jungle faster and earlier than just going straight diffusal. I like to think of it as a more slot efficient drum (since you want a manta later on) that you don't want to fight with. RoA should help with your mana issues and helps you split push lanes. You skip the drum because it isn't slot efficient and you don't want to fight until you have diffusal and probably heart as well.
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On March 07 2013 13:29 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
The fast yasha was started by aui2000 and allows you to farm the jungle faster and earlier than just going straight diffusal. I like to think of it as a more slot efficient drum (since you want a manta later on) that you don't want to fight with. RoA should help with your mana issues and helps you split push lanes. You skip the drum because it isn't slot efficient and you don't want to fight until you have diffusal and probably heart as well.
^
Exactly.
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my views on pl have been changed forever
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once you have defusal you can fight. please link me to your dotabuff so i can examine your competitive pl plays.
On March 07 2013 13:29 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
The fast yasha was started by aui2000 and allows you to farm the jungle faster and earlier than just going straight diffusal. I like to think of it as a more slot efficient drum (since you want a manta later on) that you don't want to fight with. RoA should help with your mana issues and helps you split push lanes. You skip the drum because it isn't slot efficient and you don't want to fight until you have diffusal and probably heart as well.
dont follow everything a progamer saids. good players have a mind of their own. items depend on specific games.
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On March 07 2013 13:30 Cool Cat wrote:
my views on pl have been changed forever
I hope so.
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On March 07 2013 13:31 aintz wrote:
once you have defusal you can fight. please link me to your dotabuff so i can examine your competitive pl plays.
have fun.
http://dotabuff.com/players/33136694
Sidenote in hindsight, i've actually decided the midas is bad since the spurt of games i played this weekend. Slows down your relevance.
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On March 07 2013 13:31 aintz wrote:
once you have defusal you can fight. please link me to your dotabuff so i can examine your competitive pl plays.
or you can keep ricing until you have heart and then nothing can stop you. Fighting with just diffusal is high risk high reward that serves practically no purpose since nothing out carries PL. Maybe if the enemy team is running dual core that has more space to farm than your team, but I'd probably be going for a drum build in that case so I have better items to contribute to fights with.
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shaella can you provide insight on how i'm supposed to play weaver
i suck at that hero and have probably been playing him wrong 5ever
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On March 07 2013 13:34 Cool Cat wrote:
shaella can you provide insight on how i'm supposed to play weaver
i suck at that hero and have probably been playing him wrong 5ever
Uhh.
I dunno
I change my weaver build likes every 3 games. I think that maxing Q second (get one point in geminate), and getting like, a deso is hilarious though.
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On March 07 2013 12:33 hunts wrote:
Whats your guys favorite way to build PL nowadays? Lately I've been playing him and going tranqs ->soul ring -> drums -> difusal -> heart, then normally bfly and manta. Is rushing radiance still in or not really with the more agressive style that everyone seems to play now? And are soul ring and drums needed or is it smart to just rush difusal after tranqs possibly?
I would say it depends on the game. If you are having a really good game/freefarm then I honestly think it would be a waste not to go for Radiance, however if you're getting shut down pretty badly it's definitely better to go diffusal. Radiance does a hell of a lot more in teamfights than diffusal. I remember watching the LGD vs IG games in G-league semifinals. In both games Sylar played PL and went drums --> diffusal. One of the commentators (单车/N3komata, retired progamer) firmly believed that radiance was the better choice. He even went as far as to say that Sylar, having never played in the older versions of dota where PL was top pick, didn't have the understanding of the hero on the level of older carries like 820 or ZSMJ. Of course this was a very controversial comment but I'm interested to hear experienced players (kupon3sss etc) thoughts on this.
Also regarding the doppelwalk/juxtapose debate, I honestly find it very hard to justify skipping doppelwalk. It's a useful escape mechanism and scouting tool and it's definitely going to help out a lot more than juxtapose early game. I'm pretty sure even pros skill Lance/Doppelwalk although I haven't explicitly checked before.
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On March 07 2013 13:36 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 12:33 hunts wrote:
Whats your guys favorite way to build PL nowadays? Lately I've been playing him and going tranqs ->soul ring -> drums -> difusal -> heart, then normally bfly and manta. Is rushing radiance still in or not really with the more agressive style that everyone seems to play now? And are soul ring and drums needed or is it smart to just rush difusal after tranqs possibly? I would say it depends on the game. If you are having a really good game/freefarm then I honestly think it would be a waste not to go for Radiance, however if you're getting shut down pretty badly it's definitely better to go diffusal. Radiance does a hell of a lot more in teamfights than diffusal. I remember watching the LGD vs IG games in G-league semifinals. In both games Sylar played PL and went drums --> diffusal. One of the commentators (单车/N3komata, retired progamer) firmly believed that radiance was the better choice. He even went as far as to say that Sylar, having never played in the older versions of dota where PL was top pick, didn't have the understanding of the hero on the level of older carries like 820 or ZSMJ. Of course this was a very controversial comment but I'm interested to hear experienced players (kupon3sss etc) thoughts on this. Also regarding the doppelwalk/juxtapose debate, I honestly find it very hard to justify skipping doppelwalk. It's a useful escape mechanism and scouting tool and it's definitely going to help out a lot more than juxtapose early game. I'm pretty sure even pros skill Lance/Doppelwalk although I haven't explicitly checked before.
A lot of pros get either one point in Doppel or skip it entirely
As for Radiance.. If its really fast? I dunno. the strength of PL is like that of AM, he comes online really fast.
As for G-league, 2 months old, meta has changed.
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EPT
