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On March 05 2013 08:08 SKC wrote:
Everyone calls a Leshrac that takes farm priority carry Leshrac. Same thing with Carry Veno, Carry Venge, etc. I really don't see why it would be diferent for Warlock. Most people will understand what you mean if you say you are running a carry lesh, but saying you are running a support lesh with farm priority is just confusing. People have been saying carry necro since forever when the necro has farm priority as well, I don't know why you would suddenly change that.
The opposite also applies. Support sven, support mirana, support gyro, etc. It's the farm priority that defines the role.
those are all heroes who are normally run in the opposite manner.. a little while ago you'd say sven or carry sven, not sven or support sven.
Necrolyte warlock treant puck ect are all farming supports. they are support heroes typially run with farm, and you'd refer to a necrolyte in a tri lane with a PL as a support necrolyte, not a necrolyte.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Gyro is a potent not-farming carry. Although, he is also good as a farming support. He can fulfill both of the roles well, which is what makes the hero so good in the pro scene.
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But people used the terms carry and support sven. you wouldn't say sven or carry sven, support sven was a very common term even before the sven crazy months back.
No, they're not farming supports, they do not function as supports and do not undertake a support role if they go mid and take farm and experience and use it like any other standard mid. Or is QoP magically a farming support now too if she were to buy a mek?
1st position necrolyte isn't a support. Just like 5th position sven isn't a carry.
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On March 05 2013 08:15 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:08 SKC wrote:
Everyone calls a Leshrac that takes farm priority carry Leshrac. Same thing with Carry Veno, Carry Venge, etc. I really don't see why it would be diferent for Warlock. Most people will understand what you mean if you say you are running a carry lesh, but saying you are running a support lesh with farm priority is just confusing. People have been saying carry necro since forever when the necro has farm priority as well, I don't know why you would suddenly change that.
The opposite also applies. Support sven, support mirana, support gyro, etc. It's the farm priority that defines the role. those are all heroes who are normally run in the opposite manner.. a little while ago you'd say sven or carry sven, not sven or support sven. Necrolyte warlock treant puck ect are all farming supports. they are support heroes typially run with farm, and you'd refer to a necrolyte in a tri lane with a PL as a support necrolyte, not a necrolyte.
Carry necro was the standard. So support necro would be the not normally ran manner. You really don't make much sense. It's like a Shykio discussion all over again. Roles change too often for you to call it like that. Some time ago support Sven was the norm. Then carry became very common. Now you can't really even tell.
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On March 05 2013 08:01 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:58 crms wrote:
I think solo mid is the only reasonable way to play him nowadays. He offers little to nothing in a trilane or in a dedicated puller, lane securer over nearly any other support hero in the pool. He needs levels, he needs farm or he's an insanely long cooldown stunner that instantly dies.
With warlock, you're basically going all-in with a strategy revolved around the warlock pick. He's not a casual support. That's why in recent games it's either raped, or been completely shit on. I wouldn't say its all-in. He's a hero that can 5-man better than most heroes, and his ultimate is also relatively good for pushing towers. He's just really weak to any kind of split pushing, and specific timings of ganks work really well against teams that involve is composition. He's a strong hero - I wouldn't classify him as "all-in" any more than other pure-teamfight heroes.
Really? I think he's totally all-in. With a solo mid warlock, you're basically saying, this hero needs to do something big or we're screwed. You can see this in the dignitas games. Fnatic.EU saw dignitas own with warlock mid in prior matches and just dedicated smoke ganks and crippled Fogged so hard he has no chance to recover.
What pure-teamfight hero is as limited as warlock? Warlock has literally 1 major, game breaking ability. Magnus has a sick nuke and position disruptor with skewer, Enigma has pushing power, and a double stun, Earthshaker, has a ranged stun, position blocker and mini melee range stun, Tidehunter has a nuke that slows, a high dmg melee aoe that reduces enemy dmg and is inherently tanky, venomancer offers vision, antipush/push the best early game gank slow, Warlock has.. rock.
I very much disagree with you about warlock being just as 'all-in' as other team fight heroes, very much indeed good sir! He is far less useful than any of his 'team fight' oriented counterparts. All of the previously mentioned heroes could have great game impact even if they don't land a great ult or get good farm.
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im just waiting for his offlane barathrum support farming offlane 2d position argument bahahah
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On March 05 2013 08:17 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:15 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 05 2013 08:08 SKC wrote:
Everyone calls a Leshrac that takes farm priority carry Leshrac. Same thing with Carry Veno, Carry Venge, etc. I really don't see why it would be diferent for Warlock. Most people will understand what you mean if you say you are running a carry lesh, but saying you are running a support lesh with farm priority is just confusing. People have been saying carry necro since forever when the necro has farm priority as well, I don't know why you would suddenly change that.
The opposite also applies. Support sven, support mirana, support gyro, etc. It's the farm priority that defines the role. those are all heroes who are normally run in the opposite manner.. a little while ago you'd say sven or carry sven, not sven or support sven. Necrolyte warlock treant puck ect are all farming supports. they are support heroes typially run with farm, and you'd refer to a necrolyte in a tri lane with a PL as a support necrolyte, not a necrolyte. Carry necro was the standard. So support necro would be the not normally ran manner. You really don't make much sense. It's like a Shykio discussion all over again. Roles change too often for you to call it like that. Some time ago support Sven was the norm. Then carry became very common. Now you can't really even tell.
wat. you didn't refer to a typically played necrolyte as a carry necrolyte, when you played him as standard he's just necrolyte. unless you are one of those people who is overly redundant. Necrolyte who gets 1 pos farm is still a supportive hero. his goal is to keep his team and pushes alive while controlling the team fights in his teams favor, he isn't a killing machine in the late game by any means other than attrition. or you know his ultimate.
When you farm on necrolyte or warlock or treant puck ect ect ect your goal is to farm for utility and survivability and potentially levels. Not for damage. thats obvious. i don't understand how you guys don't understand. it's just what it is.
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On March 05 2013 08:21 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:17 SKC wrote:On March 05 2013 08:15 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 05 2013 08:08 SKC wrote:
Everyone calls a Leshrac that takes farm priority carry Leshrac. Same thing with Carry Veno, Carry Venge, etc. I really don't see why it would be diferent for Warlock. Most people will understand what you mean if you say you are running a carry lesh, but saying you are running a support lesh with farm priority is just confusing. People have been saying carry necro since forever when the necro has farm priority as well, I don't know why you would suddenly change that.
The opposite also applies. Support sven, support mirana, support gyro, etc. It's the farm priority that defines the role. those are all heroes who are normally run in the opposite manner.. a little while ago you'd say sven or carry sven, not sven or support sven. Necrolyte warlock treant puck ect are all farming supports. they are support heroes typially run with farm, and you'd refer to a necrolyte in a tri lane with a PL as a support necrolyte, not a necrolyte. Carry necro was the standard. So support necro would be the not normally ran manner. You really don't make much sense. It's like a Shykio discussion all over again. Roles change too often for you to call it like that. Some time ago support Sven was the norm. Then carry became very common. Now you can't really even tell. wat. you didn't refer to a typically played necrolyte as a carry necrolyte, when you played him as standard he's just necrolyte. unless you are one of those people who is overly redundant. Necrolyte who gets 1 pos farm is still a supportive hero. his goal is to keep his team and pushes alive while controlling the team fights in his teams favor, he isn't a killing machine in the late game by any means other than attrition. or you know his ultimate.
is luna a farming support too
she has an aura which supports her team wololo
the term "farming support" is retarded because it's a direct contradiction of terms; support/carry refers to farm priority not abilities
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Holy shit you're never going to win. Just give up already
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By your logic all heroes are supportive, because they support the team in one way or another.
Necros strengths aren't from his heal, because his heal while good deals more damage than it heals. It is by far more offensive than defensive. Necro most definitely kills shit by being alive and is a menace, or rather, he was when he was a top tier pick.
He is not a support just because he has a heal.
Or i guess first position juggernaut turned into a support too, i mean he has a heal, so he's supportive, so obviously he's a support. Oh and QoP is also a support, she builds utility too!
This is some seriously broken logic.
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On March 05 2013 08:21 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:17 SKC wrote:On March 05 2013 08:15 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 05 2013 08:08 SKC wrote:
Everyone calls a Leshrac that takes farm priority carry Leshrac. Same thing with Carry Veno, Carry Venge, etc. I really don't see why it would be diferent for Warlock. Most people will understand what you mean if you say you are running a carry lesh, but saying you are running a support lesh with farm priority is just confusing. People have been saying carry necro since forever when the necro has farm priority as well, I don't know why you would suddenly change that.
The opposite also applies. Support sven, support mirana, support gyro, etc. It's the farm priority that defines the role. those are all heroes who are normally run in the opposite manner.. a little while ago you'd say sven or carry sven, not sven or support sven. Necrolyte warlock treant puck ect are all farming supports. they are support heroes typially run with farm, and you'd refer to a necrolyte in a tri lane with a PL as a support necrolyte, not a necrolyte. Carry necro was the standard. So support necro would be the not normally ran manner. You really don't make much sense. It's like a Shykio discussion all over again. Roles change too often for you to call it like that. Some time ago support Sven was the norm. Then carry became very common. Now you can't really even tell. wat. you didn't refer to a typically played necrolyte as a carry necrolyte, when you played him as standard he's just necrolyte. unless you are one of those people who is overly redundant. Necrolyte who gets 1 pos farm is still a supportive hero. his goal is to keep his team and pushes alive while controlling the team fights in his teams favor, he isn't a killing machine in the late game by any means other than attrition. or you know his ultimate.
If you chose to not call him carry necro, it was because the carry was implied. Not because he was a support. People just knew that he was the carry for that game. Same thing with Krob. Carry Krob. Not support Krob with first priority farm carry Korb.
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On March 05 2013 08:23 Skullflower wrote:
Holy shit you're never going to win. Just give up already
yeah you guys are just being intentionally belligerent without using any sort of brain matter, how could i expect to explain anything to a group of people so stubbornly braindead. you are right. sorry. next time i'll give you all crash course in language before even bothering.
User was warned for this post
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nvm I dont want to get involved
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On March 05 2013 08:24 SKC wrote:
If you chose to not call him carry necro, it was because the carry was implied. Not because he was a support. People just knew that he was the carry for that game. Same thing with Krob. Carry Krob.
Thats. my
fucking
point.
WTF. when the carry is implied on a supportive character that is fucking farming support.
On March 05 2013 08:25 PassiveAce wrote:
I disagree with your characterization of support. By your definition a necro who goes mid and goes radiance skadi daed without buying support items is still a support because he uses he's... helping his team by using his spells? thats what every hero does regardless of role.
WAT? you aren't even reading now -.- You build for damage when carrying semi carry ect, you build utility for farming support on supportive heroes. if i go dead skadi radiance that isn't utility at all. thats damage. i would call that carry necrolyte. while regular necrolyte would be getting his shivas/mek/blood/aghs/ect
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>You're all wrong and i'm right hurf durf
Sure is compelling arguments here.
Drow ranger is an amazing support guys, constant sick slow, built in silence and an aura. Best farming support in doto.
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On March 05 2013 08:04 Unleashing wrote:
I do get it.
Supports are in a certain game, the heroes that are there to support the rest of the team in terms of items or simply lane presence.
If a hero does not do any such thing, they are no longer a support. If you're playing a first position necrolyte who is focusing on items to carry, he's not playing a support, so calling him a support is fucking retarded because that's not the role he has in said game.
Aside from whatever debate is going on, this guy's post is genius. The Support's Credo, if you will. So many players don't follow it.
edit* ... and then wonder why they lose again, and again, and again.
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On March 05 2013 08:19 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:01 Comeh wrote:On March 05 2013 07:58 crms wrote:
I think solo mid is the only reasonable way to play him nowadays. He offers little to nothing in a trilane or in a dedicated puller, lane securer over nearly any other support hero in the pool. He needs levels, he needs farm or he's an insanely long cooldown stunner that instantly dies.
With warlock, you're basically going all-in with a strategy revolved around the warlock pick. He's not a casual support. That's why in recent games it's either raped, or been completely shit on. I wouldn't say its all-in. He's a hero that can 5-man better than most heroes, and his ultimate is also relatively good for pushing towers. He's just really weak to any kind of split pushing, and specific timings of ganks work really well against teams that involve is composition. He's a strong hero - I wouldn't classify him as "all-in" any more than other pure-teamfight heroes. Warlock has literally 1 major, game breaking ability.
He has 2 (arguably 3). Fatal Bonds is completely sick.
On March 05 2013 08:26 PrinceXizor wrote:
WTF. when the carry is implied on a supportive character that is fucking farming support.
There's no such thing as a "farming support". You're either supporting (as in, buying wards, chick, consumables, smokes, babysitting your carry, roaming the map for kills, stacking and pulling camps and so on), or you aren't. If you have a farming Necro, he's a carry, not a "farming support".
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you guys suck, me and comeh would have had a better argument about whether warlock is as 'all in' as other team fight heroes or not.
instead you muddled the thread with a pointless semantics debate. Nerds.
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It's amazing when every single person disagrees with you and you still can choose to blame their lack of inteligence on why they don't understand you. Perhaps when everybody disagrees with you, you are the one that is doing something wrong. You are clearly smarter than every single TL poster so far.
On March 05 2013 08:26 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:24 SKC wrote:
If you chose to not call him carry necro, it was because the carry was implied. Not because he was a support. People just knew that he was the carry for that game. Same thing with Krob. Carry Krob. Thats. my fucking point. WTF. when the carry is implied on a supportive character that is fucking farming support. Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 08:25 PassiveAce wrote:
I disagree with your characterization of support. By your definition a necro who goes mid and goes radiance skadi daed without buying support items is still a support because he uses he's... helping his team by using his spells? thats what every hero does regardless of role. WAT? you aren't even reading now -.- You build for damage when carrying semi carry ect, you build utility for farming support on supportive heroes. if i go dead skadi radiance that isn't utility at all. thats damage. i would call that carry necrolyte. while regular necrolyte would be getting his shivas/mek/blood/aghs/ect
You said the exact opposite some time before. You said being a support is intrinsic to the hero. So a farm priority necro would still be a support. Unless you are saying he is both, you make no sense.
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The only "farming support" is Kotl, PERIOD
END OF DISCUSSION
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EPT
