EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 2235
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
<_< | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
Guys listen.... What if Kollin is actually Firebolt? And all this is just to make us believe he has fans? Both from UK, both playing dota. Both feeders. It checks out. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
For being a decent pub player, it's around 60% knowing how the heroes work, 25% reasonably good decision and 15% mechanics. For high level players knowing standard hero interactions(who outlanes/outcarries/outfarms/outpushs which other hero) is basically the metagame everyone knows. I estimate the distinguishing factors(aside from drafting) for high level play are 70% experience based decision, 15% observation, 10% other mechanics and 5% obscure hero knowledge(pocket strategies). There is a reason things like Navi not able to handle standard chinese heroes(Morph/Invoker/Furion) in TI2 happen. In any single game of Dota you(unknowingly or not) make dozens of decisions every minute. You constantly redecide where you move to on the map and what you are doing based on what you observe during the game. Unless you try to get featured in a Wodota video with armlet/force staff/blink/ghost scepter or play one of the few difficult heroes(invoker/any hero with multiple units) there is little mechanical difficulty in Dota 2. For example I played pubs for several years in Dota 1 and I have so much experience playing against pudge that I have practically an invisible hook range marker inside my head. A totally useless skill for high level dota, but I did relearn it within my first game against pudge in Dota 2. Other, more relevant skills include judging the capabilities of your hero, the capabilities of the heroes of your team and the capab. of the heroes of the enemies. In short, Dota skill lies in experience and good judgment, not in mechanical skill. It's important because the first thing you keep telling yourself when you lose to a right click hero like drow or sniper is that you are playing more difficult heroes.  (Why do my posts become so long sometimes...) | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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duoform
Spain5180 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:29 Gosi wrote: Guys.... Guys listen.... What if Kollin is actually Firebolt? And all this is just to make us believe he has fans? Both from UK, both playing dota. Both feeders. It checks out. Oh god, don't tell me he's Ari~ as well  | ||
TheEmulator
28102 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:29 Mataza wrote: I agree with the point that dota is not as plannable and mechanical as sc2. For being a decent pub player, it's around 60% knowing how the heroes work, 25% reasonably good decision and 15% mechanics. For high level players knowing standard hero interactions(who outlanes/outcarries/outfarms/outpushs which other hero) is basically the metagame everyone knows. I estimate the distinguishing factors(aside from drafting) for high level play are 70% experience based decision, 15% observation, 10% other mechanics and 5% obscure hero knowledge(pocket strategies). There is a reason things like Navi not able to handle standard chinese heroes(Morph/Invoker/Furion) in TI2 happen. In any single game of Dota you(unknowingly or not) make dozens of decisions every minute. You constantly redecide where you move to on the map and what you are doing based on what you observe during the game. Unless you try to get featured in a Wodota video with armlet/force staff/blink/ghost scepter or play one of the few difficult heroes(invoker/any hero with multiple units) there is little mechanical difficulty in Dota 2. For example I played pubs for several years in Dota 1 and I have so much experience playing against pudge that I have practically an invisible hook range marker inside my head. A totally useless skill for high level dota, but I did relearn it within my first game against pudge in Dota 2. Other, more relevant skills include judging the capabilities of your hero, the capabilities of the heroes of your team and the capab. of the heroes of the enemies. In short, Dota skill lies in experience and good judgment, not in mechanical skill. It's important because the first thing you keep telling yourself when you lose to a right click hero like drow or sniper is that you are playing more difficult heroes. (Why do my posts become so long sometimes...) Yes you're right. People aren't saying mechanics are the most important aspect, just some people here misread my statement of Select progressing faster because of mechanics as me saying he will be the best someday as a result of those mechanics, which is far from true. However, while the ceiling may not be that high mechanically in Dota 2, the consistency at this ceiling that pro players have is far above most players. I play DotA with a lot of people, and none of them can hit WR shackles as much as LOH can. None of them can CS as well mid as much as someone like Yaphets, Dendi, or any pro mid. None of them have the reaction speeds that someone naturally talented like Select has. I could go on and on about little things they do mechanically more consistent. But you're right, it isn't as important as decision making, knowledge, etc. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
+1 and team work, team work bro. And ya, i think it is pretty pointless to talk about individual skill in a game like dota. Sure mechanically i have no doubt that any sc2 ex-pro/pro can easily get up there with practice but the thing is, say, Invoker. No sc2 pros can master the quick thinking and decision making on using spells part in a short time, not to mention that the item builds, the synergy between different heroes or when you play against them, what should you do at specific situations etc etc all of these takes years to master. Everyone knows how to play any hero with full 6 items or in the case of invoker everyone can memorize and ditch out 10 spells with 400apm but the hardest thing is how do you get there. And then you need excellent team coordination to be a top team. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:29 Gosi wrote: Guys.... Guys listen.... What if Kollin is actually Firebolt? And all this is just to make us believe he has fans? Both from UK, both playing dota. Both feeders. It checks out. in my experience euro has become synonomous with feeder | ||
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TheEmulator
28102 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:45 BurningSera wrote: @Mataza +1 and team work, team work bro. And ya, i think it is pretty pointless to talk about individual skill in a game like dota. Sure mechanically i have no doubt that any sc2 ex-pro/pro can easily get up there with practice but the thing is, say, Invoker. No sc2 pros can master the quick thinking and decision making on using spells part in a short time, not to mention that the item builds, the synergy between different heroes or when you play against them, what should you do at specific situations etc etc all of these takes years to master. Everyone knows how to play any hero with full 6 items or in the case of invoker everyone can memorize and ditch out 10 spells with 400apm but the hardest thing is how do you get there. And then you need excellent team coordination to be a top team. Yes, you're right here. GJ. But to say talking about individual skill is pointless is kind of stupid imo. I'm sure if a top team like iG picked up a new mid player, they wouldn't go " well his teamwork and strategy are good from what we hear. What about his mechanics? Well, that's pointless to talk about". Doesn't that sound stupid? What if he sucked mid and loses every game? | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
While decision making might be more important in dota, mechanical skill is still similar to SC as in it is the simplest way to improve. If you watch CTY you will clearly see abnormal mechanical skill, you will be impressed just by watching him..quite rare to see such a thing happen in dota.(more so if you watch him play mid in the dota 1vs1 tournament) Chuan has pretty sick mechanics as well, whenever he plays SF he somehow manages to lasthit all the creeps in the first waves. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:48 kollin wrote: qbek confirmed jealous of my polish Kollin confirmed mad | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:53 FinestHour wrote: in my experience euro has become synonomous with feeder Poor Firebolt, everyone being so mean to him. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:53 FinestHour wrote: in my experience euro has become synonomous with feeder 2013 - The year of NA Dota. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:54 Andr3 wrote: The thing is if you have sick mechanics you're gonna win(as much as you can individually) your lanes. Imagine tough 3vs3 trilanes as carry, 1vs1 mid etc. While decision making might be more important in dota, mechanical skill is still similar to SC as in it is the simplest way to improve. If you watch CTY you will clearly see abnormal mechanical skill, you will be impressed just by watching him..quite rare to see such a thing happen in dota.(more so if you watch him play mid in the dota 1vs1 tournament) Chuan has pretty sick mechanics as well, whenever he plays SF he somehow manages to lasthit all the creeps in the first waves. The thing is, many of those things are pure mechanics. Most of the "micro" in DotA is driven heavily by game knowledge (knowing the range/damage/animation/etc. on skills) and and situational awareness based on these things. Winning lanes is heavily driven by being able to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the relevant heroes and understanding how to play out various situations based on that (when to push, when to freeze the lane, when to harass, when to go for a kill), rather than anything that could be purely labeled "mechanics". | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
still got ganked and lost | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
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