|
|
On February 07 2013 04:03 Kupon3ss wrote:
It's a genius business and marketting practice, which are the areas in which Riot and Tencent are perhaps superior to any other video game company atm due to their deeper understanding of the e-goods model and market. The main issue with a scene like that, however, is that it's not self-sustainable in the long term and likely to fall apart as soon riot pulls its own money out of the market.
Riot will subsidize the pro scene as long as it makes money, which will occur for the foreseeable future. It is also highly likely that this infusion might be a quick and easy way to boost the scene to a state of self-reliance (see korea) and as long as they keep the title of "biggest whatever" in esports without the costs becoming prohibitive it will always be worth it.
Pretty sure Riot isn't getting as much out of the pro scene as everyone thinks,they are maybe even loosing money on it.
As far as I know Riot has so much money that they actually have no idea what to do with it,season 3 is basically a huge passion project/marketing campaign.
and yea what yango said
|
United States47024 Posts
It's even LESS reassuring if Riot has no actual financial incentive to keep the competitive scene afloat and is only doing it out of good will/on a whim.
|
On February 07 2013 03:57 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 03:56 r.Evo wrote:On February 07 2013 03:53 TheKefka wrote:
The fact is the money/skill disparity between the top teams and everyone under them in dota is so huge that it creates a really big problem for everyone.Sure IG and Navi are good to go but everyone else is kinda fucked and they can't just live and practice like everything is going to be fine,it's a big mental strain.You can only go so far with developing new talent when you are not even sure you will be able to eat from what you are doing.
Riot pretty much fixed that for the lower end teams by giving everyone salary. Technically "providing" for teams on a lower level than the very top means increased competition in the future. Increased competition turns into more viewers and more ad revenue for organizers which in return provides for teams via prize pools. It's not a bad idea at all. Exactly,it's actually genius and a pretty good investment.
I maintain since I first had a lvl 30 summoner that their marketing guys are among the brightest on the planet. It's just so clever.
@Yango: The trick is that the "shift to individual sponsors" is almost guaranteed if you play your cards this way. More sustainable teams means more people will get access to the entire scene. It means more media coverage, more viewers, more players.
All that translates to ad revenue for individual sponsors. If someone would start paying people to participate in chess tournaments and thousands start showing up you can bet that sponsors will want their logos shown at the venues. Suddenly the player pool is inflated and sponsors are willing to invest money.
Even better, there will be a point at which it doesn't matter if the scene (initially) just got inflated artificially because it becomes self sustainable. The only real question that remains is if at champion 242 the majority of players will find out how fucking high RP costs actually are compared to anything else on the market. =P
|
United States47024 Posts
Right now the real question for LoL is more whether the scene will survive the "Yellow Scare" that happens in E-sports when Western audiences (NA audiences in particular) realize that Asian teams/players far outmatch their Western counterparts. More than one game has had it's Western competitive scene totally collapse, or at least shrink drastically, in the face of that realization.
|
to bring my very own conspiracy theory into riots involvement in esport:
i think that riots tries to market specific products (skins, heroes and so on) through esport. they nerf or buff certain heroes to make these heroes played more on streams and tournaments and thus more people buying them.
if they control the esport, they can prevent tournament organisations from doing silly things like banning overpowered heroes or establish more restrictive rules (increase bans, limit the hero pool and similar things).
|
On February 07 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:
Right now the real question for LoL is more whether the scene will survive the "Yellow Scare" that happens in E-sports when Western audiences (NA audiences in particular) realize that Asian teams/players far outmatch their Western counterparts. More than one game has had it's Western competitive scene totally collapse, or at least shrink drastically, in the face of that realization.
That's an issue that is almost entirely stemming from practice time and experience with proper practice. The amount of practice time increases with bigger sponsorships (check) the experience with proper practice is a matter of either just waiting it out, hiring guys from the Asian scene who know their shit or hiring people from other sports with the necessary know how.
|
something dota related. Would Slark be considered an ok pickup vs pl? seeing as his pounce ignores illusions and only leashes the real one?
|
On February 07 2013 04:16 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:
Right now the real question for LoL is more whether the scene will survive the "Yellow Scare" that happens in E-sports when Western audiences (NA audiences in particular) realize that Asian teams/players far outmatch their Western counterparts. More than one game has had it's Western competitive scene totally collapse, or at least shrink drastically, in the face of that realization. That's an issue that is almost entirely stemming from practice time and experience with proper practice. The amount of practice time increases with bigger sponsorships (check) the experience with proper practice is a matter of either just waiting it out, hiring guys from the Asian scene who know their shit or hiring people from other sports with the necessary know how.
However, one of the major problems has to do with pre-existing infrastructure / already existing viewerbase for esport or games of that particular - because korea already has a larger viewer base from other games, and sponsors / organizations already exist to support these industries, there is an increased revenue streams that filter down to players that allow for the practice time and dedication to the game to obliterate competition.
On February 07 2013 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
something dota related. Would Slark be considered an ok pickup vs pl? seeing as his pounce ignores illusions and only leashes the real one?
Nope - he has no way of dealing with the rest of PL / him turning on you and killing you immediately once he gets 1/2 core items up. Before that I guess.
|
On February 07 2013 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
something dota related. Would Slark be considered an ok pickup vs pl? seeing as his pounce ignores illusions and only leashes the real one?
You leash the real one. And die
|
On February 07 2013 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
something dota related. Would Slark be considered an ok pickup vs pl? seeing as his pounce ignores illusions and only leashes the real one?
He'd jump in, get the real PL and then PL turns around and kills slark.
|
United States47024 Posts
I don't agree that practice time increases with bigger sponsorships.
Practice time increases with incentives to practice. A cutthroat competitive environment with a "less than #1 is nobody" or "perform or get replaced" attitude encourages practice. A stable income that's independent of your actual results and a streaming income that discourages real practice and encourages screwing around in solo queue aren't exactly good incentives to practice.
|
On February 07 2013 04:19 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
something dota related. Would Slark be considered an ok pickup vs pl? seeing as his pounce ignores illusions and only leashes the real one? You leash the real one. And die
meant more as in people complained awhile back as in it was impossible to gank or kill a pl because you couldn't destuingish the real one from the fake ones, just thought a slark would help in those cases? Or just plain bad?
|
Ala what people tend to call the EG curse?
|
On February 07 2013 04:24 Makenshi wrote:
Or just plain bad?
Yeah thats slark.
|
On February 07 2013 04:18 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 04:16 r.Evo wrote:On February 07 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:
Right now the real question for LoL is more whether the scene will survive the "Yellow Scare" that happens in E-sports when Western audiences (NA audiences in particular) realize that Asian teams/players far outmatch their Western counterparts. More than one game has had it's Western competitive scene totally collapse, or at least shrink drastically, in the face of that realization. That's an issue that is almost entirely stemming from practice time and experience with proper practice. The amount of practice time increases with bigger sponsorships (check) the experience with proper practice is a matter of either just waiting it out, hiring guys from the Asian scene who know their shit or hiring people from other sports with the necessary know how. However, one of the major problems has to do with pre-existing infrastructure / already existing viewerbase for esport or games of that particular - because korea already has a larger viewer base from other games, and sponsors / organizations already exist to support these industries, there is an increased revenue streams that filter down to players that allow for the practice time and dedication to the game to obliterate competition.
The real question is when the western scene moves away from directly gaming-related sponsors. Razer and Steelseries are okay and all, but the next logical steps are things like Red Bull, Pepsi/Coke, Pringles, stuff like that. It's all just a matter that boils down to the amount of people interested in thegame and the amount of money thrown at it up to a certain point.
|
On February 07 2013 04:23 TheYango wrote:
I don't agree that practice time increases with bigger sponsorships.
Practice time increases with incentives to practice. A cutthroat competitive environment with a "less than #1 is nobody" or "perform or get replaced" attitude encourages practice. A stable income that's independent of your actual results and a streaming income that discourages real practice and encourages screwing around in solo queue aren't exactly good incentives to practice.
I wouldn't say that increased revenue stream decreases incentive to practice - lets look at the classic example of top korean BW pros (A Teams): most of these pros practiced for a huge amount of time because they were able to, expected to, and wanted to. If they had to work a job on the side, they would likely only have access to practice for a smaller amount of time. One of the greatest barriers to being able to practice for a long time is actually being able to practice for a long time.
Especially in a team game, if one of your players has real life commitments to keep (let's say school), then the team cannot practice together. If they are paid to play full-time, then they can practice more effectively. Keep in mind, a lot of pro players have more fun playing serious games rather then messing around in pubs.
On February 07 2013 04:26 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 04:18 Comeh wrote:On February 07 2013 04:16 r.Evo wrote:On February 07 2013 04:12 TheYango wrote:
Right now the real question for LoL is more whether the scene will survive the "Yellow Scare" that happens in E-sports when Western audiences (NA audiences in particular) realize that Asian teams/players far outmatch their Western counterparts. More than one game has had it's Western competitive scene totally collapse, or at least shrink drastically, in the face of that realization. That's an issue that is almost entirely stemming from practice time and experience with proper practice. The amount of practice time increases with bigger sponsorships (check) the experience with proper practice is a matter of either just waiting it out, hiring guys from the Asian scene who know their shit or hiring people from other sports with the necessary know how. However, one of the major problems has to do with pre-existing infrastructure / already existing viewerbase for esport or games of that particular - because korea already has a larger viewer base from other games, and sponsors / organizations already exist to support these industries, there is an increased revenue streams that filter down to players that allow for the practice time and dedication to the game to obliterate competition. The real question is when the western scene moves away from directly gaming-related sponsors. Razer and Steelseries are okay and all, but the next logical steps are things like Red Bull, Pepsi/Coke, Pringles, stuff like that. It's all just a matter that boils down to the amount of people interested in thegame and the amount of money thrown at it up to a certain point.
I think the real question actually is - does Pepsi / Coke / etc actually want to sponsor teams / tournaments in the west? is there enough viewers? Are social stigmas in the west a Independence? (I would say viewer numbers are the most important factor for this)
|
On February 07 2013 04:23 TheYango wrote:
I don't agree that practice time increases with bigger sponsorships.
Practice time increases with incentives to practice. A cutthroat competitive environment with a "less than #1 is nobody" or "perform or get replaced" attitude encourages practice. A stable income that's independent of your actual results and a streaming income that discourages real practice and encourages screwing around in solo queue aren't exactly good incentives to practice.
I don't agree with that as well actually.With that logic NA players and teams would be at the top of the world,but they aren't.Out of everyone they suck.Practice time has to do with how cheep the living conditions are in your environment imo.
Is anyone surprised at this point that the only teams that can hold their own against Asians are from eastern Europe?
In korea you get into a gaming house and you live there basically for free,you don't get a salary,but still you live for free.
China as far as I understand is ridic cheep(food,etc.).
How can you be competitive in a 5 man game if you come from a country like the US,Germany,France,etc. where the living costs are so high that there is always a loud ticking clock over your head that bothers you more than anything?
Streaming isn't that big of a deal unless it vastly interferes with your scrim time.
|
United States47024 Posts
It's also kind of funny that in the West people say that for E-sports to grow, teams can't rely on tournament winnings for their livelihood--when in fact, Asian E-sports grew out of fledgeling scenes that fostered stiff competition BECAUSE players were depending on tournament winnings for their livelihood (e.g. GO Team basically living solely out of Coach Cho's pocket + Xellos' tournament winnings).
|
On February 07 2013 04:23 TheYango wrote:
I don't agree that practice time increases with bigger sponsorships.
Practice time increases with incentives to practice. A cutthroat competitive environment with a "less than #1 is nobody" or "perform or get replaced" attitude encourages practice. A stable income that's independent of your actual results and a streaming income that discourages real practice and encourages screwing around in solo queue aren't exactly good incentives to practice.
That "cutthroat competitive environment" will happen by itself once real business people show up. If enough people view the games and enough companies want to advertise / sponsor people will be cut and the remaining ones will be trained to a completely different standard.
A "professional gaming team" consists of employees more than anything.
|
Maybe it's just me but lately I have been running into people who are less friendly and much ruder in my games. I'm not in very high skilled games but I have probably been increasing in skill recently. The past couple days people have been very critical and insulting lately. Not too fun. I like chill friendly games. Am I in the minority here?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
