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Either my opponent stands still for 4 seconds before the stun procs, in which case they are dead either way and another stun/nuke does just as well, OR my opponent runs away and isn't stunned, in which case another stun/nuke is simply better. Thats the way I see it. Admittedly, pre-boots it works pretty well with just about anything else, but the stun scaling on it isn't that insane since again, if I could hold them inside the range for 4 seconds then I should be able to kill them anyway.
I think you were pretty generous with your "Effective damage" calculations. I get that in best-case scenario, it is a lot of damage. So are finger/laguna blade/lesh ulti etc, and they are much easier to setup (although not global). The upside to AA ulti is really high, I do understand that.
Plus, heros with actual stuns are much stronger vs BKBs than AA. AA is so crazy awful vs BKBs, and the speed of damage (or lack thereof) means even killing supports with AA spells doesn't prevent them from getting off all their relevant spells/items (usually).
It isn't really worth arguing about, I just feel like AA is a terrible hero except for a strong ulti that is way hard to hit, and not worth all the effort you have to go to to make him kinda OK.
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United States47024 Posts
Obviously no one is going to convince you when you're so adamant about it.
Personally, I think the hero's competitive success speaks for itself, and he fell out of favor for completely logical reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the hero being categorically weak.
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On February 06 2013 06:00 TheYango wrote:
Obviously no one is going to convince you when you're so adamant about it.
Personally, I think the hero's competitive success speaks for itself, and he fell out of favor for completely logical reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the hero being categorically weak.
Meh. Its because I've thought the hero through and come to my conclusion. I've thought of all your comments, and to me they just don't weigh very much compared to how bad he is in most situations. Maybe with competitive coordination and skillz he is better, but you'd think competitive opponents could play against a skillshot ulti like that. *shrug*. We both agree you aren't convincing me, though I'll admit I didn't know he was picked in chinese dota. I will say though that whenever I argue certain heroes that aren't in the meta are bad at least partially because they are "unlaneable" I get shouted at that that isn't a good reason.
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hi, can someone please help..
today, pressing either escape or alt will minimise dota2.
this means i cant escape out of shop , or ping the map..
any ideas please?
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A lot of heroes require setup disables to be more effective. Stating that you think his ability is bad because it works better with a setup is rather silly. AA dual lanes are insanely good it's just that dual lanes aren't as strong as they used to be. Don't forget vortex is huge range so it's very good for scouting. AA also used to be really good in mid.
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On February 06 2013 06:13 FFGenerations wrote:
hi, can someone please help..
today, pressing either escape or alt will minimise dota2.
this means i cant escape out of shop , or ping the map..
any ideas please?
First idea - is you're ctrl or alt key stuck / depressed in?
have you tried using console and unbinding the escape key in dota2? Or going into controls, binding something to escape, and then unbinding it?
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On February 06 2013 06:15 Numy wrote:
A lot of heroes require setup disables to be more effective. Stating that you think his ability is bad because it works better with a setup is rather silly. AA dual lanes are insanely good it's just that dual lanes aren't as strong as they used to be. Don't forget vortex is huge range so it's very good for scouting. AA also used to be really good in mid.
Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth?
Because, cold feet is AA's best ability by a zillion miles (pre-6), whereas on lesh split earth is good, but so is edict. And I take Lesh's stun over AA's every time. Whatever. I wanted to stop arguing this.
Oh yeah, I was also gonna say that I thought AA was better in a 3v3 compared to a 2v2 lane situation, since his E gains relevance (although admittedly cold feet is single target). Dunno. Haven't every played him in a tri vs tri situation, I'll admit.
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On February 06 2013 06:21 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:15 Numy wrote:
A lot of heroes require setup disables to be more effective. Stating that you think his ability is bad because it works better with a setup is rather silly. AA dual lanes are insanely good it's just that dual lanes aren't as strong as they used to be. Don't forget vortex is huge range so it's very good for scouting. AA also used to be really good in mid. Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth? Because, cold feet is AA's best ability by a zillion miles (pre-6), whereas on lesh split earth is good, but so is edict. And I take Lesh's stun over AA's every time. Whatever. I wanted to stop arguing this. Oh yeah, I was also gonna say that I thought AA was better in a 3v3 compared to a 2v2 lane situation, since his E gains relevance (although admittedly cold feet is single target). Dunno. Haven't every played him in a tri vs tri situation, I'll admit.
I've (and i'm sure others) have been wondering how good chilling touch is in a trilane vs trilane situation - anyone have any experience trying to run this?
IIRC navi picked up an AA and chilling touch won them a level 1 5v5 teamfight.
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You're just narrow minded.
Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth?
I can do the same. Would you rather have a single target 100% damage spell with the chance of a stun, or a small aoe stun / damage spell that is easily jukeable due to long casting time and animation?
Obviously cold feet is superior to split earth.
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On February 06 2013 06:25 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:21 Sn0_Man wrote:On February 06 2013 06:15 Numy wrote:
A lot of heroes require setup disables to be more effective. Stating that you think his ability is bad because it works better with a setup is rather silly. AA dual lanes are insanely good it's just that dual lanes aren't as strong as they used to be. Don't forget vortex is huge range so it's very good for scouting. AA also used to be really good in mid. Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth? Because, cold feet is AA's best ability by a zillion miles (pre-6), whereas on lesh split earth is good, but so is edict. And I take Lesh's stun over AA's every time. Whatever. I wanted to stop arguing this. Oh yeah, I was also gonna say that I thought AA was better in a 3v3 compared to a 2v2 lane situation, since his E gains relevance (although admittedly cold feet is single target). Dunno. Haven't every played him in a tri vs tri situation, I'll admit. I've (and i'm sure others) have been wondering how good chilling touch is in a trilane vs trilane situation - anyone have any experience trying to run this? IIRC navi picked up an AA and chilling touch won them a level 1 5v5 teamfight.
Problem with tri on tri is that your supports don't really have any fall back to get levels and AA needs levels badly.
To the quote: Leshrac and AA fill completely different purposes as a support. Comparing one spell to another isn't really usefull if you ignore the purpose behind picking the hero. AA provides global map presence and safe aoe burst in teamfights. Leshrac has a greater lane burst potential but doesn't provide the global presence nor does he provide safe aoe in teamfight(Lightning build is superior to edict these days outside of some situations I feel, like zero contested pushing) Currently Lesh most likely fits more into the game because lane pressure/roaming is just more useful but that doesn't mean AA is a bad hero.
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On February 06 2013 06:28 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:25 Comeh wrote:On February 06 2013 06:21 Sn0_Man wrote:On February 06 2013 06:15 Numy wrote:
A lot of heroes require setup disables to be more effective. Stating that you think his ability is bad because it works better with a setup is rather silly. AA dual lanes are insanely good it's just that dual lanes aren't as strong as they used to be. Don't forget vortex is huge range so it's very good for scouting. AA also used to be really good in mid. Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth? Because, cold feet is AA's best ability by a zillion miles (pre-6), whereas on lesh split earth is good, but so is edict. And I take Lesh's stun over AA's every time. Whatever. I wanted to stop arguing this. Oh yeah, I was also gonna say that I thought AA was better in a 3v3 compared to a 2v2 lane situation, since his E gains relevance (although admittedly cold feet is single target). Dunno. Haven't every played him in a tri vs tri situation, I'll admit. I've (and i'm sure others) have been wondering how good chilling touch is in a trilane vs trilane situation - anyone have any experience trying to run this? IIRC navi picked up an AA and chilling touch won them a level 1 5v5 teamfight. Problem with tri on tri is that your supports don't really have any fall back to get levels and AA needs levels badly. To the quote: Leshrac and AA fill completely different purposes as a support. Comparing one spell to another isn't really usefull if you ignore the purpose behind picking the hero. AA provides global map presence and safe aoe burst in teamfights. Leshrac has a greater lane burst potential but doesn't provide the global presence nor does he provide safe aoe in teamfight(Lightning build is superior to edict these days outside of some situations I feel, like zero contested pushing) Currently Lesh most likely fits more into the game because lane pressure/roaming is just more useful but that doesn't mean AA is a bad hero.
Oh yeah - I totally agree about trilanes with AA, but I was just curious how strong chilling touch is in those kind of scenarios.
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On February 06 2013 06:27 Elefanto wrote:
You're just narrow minded.
Thats not very helpful bro.
On February 06 2013 06:27 Elefanto wrote:I can do the same. Would you rather have a single target 100% damage spell with the chance of a stun, or a small aoe stun / damage spell that is easily jukeable due to long casting time and animation? Obviously cold feet is superior to split earth.
Cold feet doesn't do 100% damage. Alls you have to do is walk/blink/forcestaff out and it stops doing damage. Any hero with a mobility skill gets out of it at like 1/2 damage or less (700 range hex, 350 movespeed means 1/2 damage). Without setup to get the stun, its like a tragically worse QoP DOT... which is known for being a 1-point wonder. (Okay it has more range than that).
I'm not arguing that it is awful, I'm just commenting on what ability you would like to have. I get that the heroes are different.
BTW why is AA slow too?  I think I'd like the hero more if it was like 305 MS.
On February 06 2013 06:29 Unleashing wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Lane them with N'aix. @ Lesh/AA.
Can't see your image but thats how I won my last AA game, yes.
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United States47024 Posts
He engages every teamfight at like 2000 range and has 600 AA range in lane. He doesn't need to be fast because his spells allow him extremely conservative positioning.
He also has a cast animation that's essentially instant.
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On February 06 2013 06:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Thats not very helpful bro. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:27 Elefanto wrote:Would you rather have AA's cold feet or Leshrac's split earth? I can do the same. Would you rather have a single target 100% damage spell with the chance of a stun, or a small aoe stun / damage spell that is easily jukeable due to long casting time and animation? Obviously cold feet is superior to split earth. Cold feet doesn't do 100% damage. Alls you have to do is walk/blink/forcestaff out and it stops doing damage. Any hero with a mobility skill gets out of it at like 1/2 damage or less (700 range hex, 350 movespeed means 1/2 damage). Without setup to get the stun, its like a tragically worse QoP DOT... which is known for being a 1-point wonder. (Okay it has more range than that). I'm not arguing that it is awful, I'm just commenting on what ability you would like to have. I get that the heroes are different. BTW why is AA slow too? I think I'd like the hero more if it was like 305 MS.
You simply wouldn't pick AA in a situation where you didn't have some sort of initial stun / slow (along the lines of CK, Naix, maybe sven?)
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United States47024 Posts
Most common lanes with AA when he was commonly picked were CK+AA, SK+AA, and ES+AA.
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On February 06 2013 06:38 Comeh wrote:
You simply wouldn't pick AA in a situation where you didn't have some sort of initial stun / slow (along the lines of CK, Naix, maybe sven?)
Whoooooo heroes that do nothing on their own. Party.
Also, Yes CK/SK/ES make good AA lane partners. They also make good lane partners for about every ranged stun hero in the game really (mirana, lina, lesh, WD, etc). I suppose the goal here is to have nice teamfight combos though since that is apparently the primary draw of AA.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 06 2013 06:50 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:38 Comeh wrote:
You simply wouldn't pick AA in a situation where you didn't have some sort of initial stun / slow (along the lines of CK, Naix, maybe sven?) Whoooooo heroes that do nothing on their own. Party. Also, Yes CK/SK/ES make good AA lane partners. They also make good lane partners for about every ranged stun hero in the game really (mirana, lina, lesh, WD, etc). I suppose the goal here is to have nice teamfight combos though since that is apparently the primary draw of AA.
The thing is, CK/SK/ES are all heroes that roam and gank effectively as well as forming good lane combos. In this situation, AA can farm/get levels, while also assisting ganks across the map. Lesh/Lina/etc. don't have that global assisting ability.
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On February 06 2013 06:50 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:38 Comeh wrote:
You simply wouldn't pick AA in a situation where you didn't have some sort of initial stun / slow (along the lines of CK, Naix, maybe sven?) Whoooooo heroes that do nothing on their own. Party. Also, Yes CK/SK/ES make good AA lane partners. They also make good lane partners for about every ranged stun hero in the game really (mirana, lina, lesh, WD, etc). I suppose the goal here is to have nice teamfight combos though since that is apparently the primary draw of AA.
You were just making the argument that leshrac needs someone to set up his stun just like AA does, but is an effective hero.
Also, CK, Naix, Sven are relatively popular heroes atm - and AA's ult isn't "nothing" - it has a huge impact in teamfights. I'm not arguing he's the best hero, but hes not useless.
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Why are we talking about AA when we could be talking about potential Treant buffs?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/3871130+_87be5c734d1405da1cd72c4337074836.jpg)
