|
|
On January 24 2013 02:18 PassiveAce wrote:
If dota automatically assigned you a role every time you joined a game based on your comparative skill to the other players on your team, I wouldnt play. The fluidity of it is part of the fun.
The people suggesting that this is gonna be the case immediately after an ELO system is introduced are being ridiculous. I played HoN at a relatively high level and I really don't remember flaming being that rampant. In fact, I get far more people fighting over mid and carry roles in DotA atm than I ever remember in HoN.
|
On January 24 2013 02:21 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:18 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 02:18 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 02:16 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 02:15 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 02:08 superstartran wrote:
People who play for fun generally don't end up in the bracket I play in. So for the most part, I am only addressing people who are playing to win and like to play semi-competitively in pubs.
Right now in DotA 2 there are no IHLs that are good. The VH level bracket games (as in most of the shit that shows up on page 1) play very similar to what you would see in an IHL, so thinking that those people shouldn't play to win is hilarious. So what bracket are you in?! I'm on page 1 from time to time, and I don't have this experience of a bracket where people never play for fun. If you're playing a NADota stack, you have no choice but to play to win if you want to have any semblance of fun. If you try to play non-try hard/fun, you're gonna get fountain fed on within the first 15 minutes of the game. On January 24 2013 02:16 ChrisXIV wrote:On January 24 2013 02:14 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 02:11 ChrisXIV wrote:On January 24 2013 02:02 superstartran wrote:
I'm getting the feeling you don't want your MMR publicly shown because you're not as good as you thought you were at DotA 2. Two can play at that game. I'm an OK carry, a mediocre mid and a horrible support. According to your system, where good overall MMR means getting the important roles, I'd never get to play the role I'm decent at, unless I get paired with players worse than me overall. And again, I'm pretty sure you would flame the shit out of people with lower ranking than yours taking mid. The system is not going to skew you where you are position 5 every single game. What do people not understand about this? By having a set order based on MMRs, you get to actually play every position more often than you normally would, because sometimes you would be forced to pick supports when you don't like to play supports, and sometimes you are forced to play mid when you don't like to play mid. Basic statistics, carry being the 1 position and mid being the 2 position means you are more likely not to get those roles. No, you're not understanding me. The system is not going to put you at the bottom of the list in terms of MMR every single time out of your entire team. You're going to have the chance to play higher impact positions, because the system will put you with people that are lower MMR than you sometimes. So you're telling me that Demon never trolls. You ever try playing against Murs in a 5 stack without try harding? Not very fun. Of course you're going to occasionally play against tryhards. I've played Merlini's stacks before on EU, I am well aware of how he does things. What I'm saying is that the number of tryhard games versus non-tryhard games is still skewed towards non-tryhard, and thus everyone should just take a seat back and enjoy the damn game.
The number of try hards you and I face at our level is significantly higher than in the lower brackets. As such, if we want to win said tryhard games, it's probably in our favor to be able to quickly identify who is good at what roles, who is mechanically the best player, etc.
On January 24 2013 02:22 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:20 superstartran wrote:
Hate to break it to you, but people at that level generally do play to win, so if you don't like it, you can keep your mouth shut and stay down in the 'fun' bracket.
Just because you and the other kids who never accomplished anything in dota get to play with people who are good at the game, doesn't make the people who are good at the game take the pubs seriously. sry bro.
Some people are competitive by nature and don't have time to invest into a team. Pubs are where I play to win. Unfourtanately I don't have time to commit full time to a team. So wake up and smell the fresh coffee, some people actually do like to win.
|
On January 24 2013 02:16 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:15 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 02:08 superstartran wrote:
People who play for fun generally don't end up in the bracket I play in. So for the most part, I am only addressing people who are playing to win and like to play semi-competitively in pubs.
Right now in DotA 2 there are no IHLs that are good. The VH level bracket games (as in most of the shit that shows up on page 1) play very similar to what you would see in an IHL, so thinking that those people shouldn't play to win is hilarious. So what bracket are you in?! I'm on page 1 from time to time, and I don't have this experience of a bracket where people never play for fun. If you're playing a NADota stack, you have no choice but to play to win if you want to have any semblance of fun. If you try to play non-try hard/fun, you're gonna get fountain fed on within the first 15 minutes of the game. Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:16 ChrisXIV wrote:On January 24 2013 02:14 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 02:11 ChrisXIV wrote:On January 24 2013 02:02 superstartran wrote:
I'm getting the feeling you don't want your MMR publicly shown because you're not as good as you thought you were at DotA 2. Two can play at that game. I'm an OK carry, a mediocre mid and a horrible support. According to your system, where good overall MMR means getting the important roles, I'd never get to play the role I'm decent at, unless I get paired with players worse than me overall. And again, I'm pretty sure you would flame the shit out of people with lower ranking than yours taking mid. The system is not going to skew you where you are position 5 every single game. What do people not understand about this? By having a set order based on MMRs, you get to actually play every position more often than you normally would, because sometimes you would be forced to pick supports when you don't like to play supports, and sometimes you are forced to play mid when you don't like to play mid. Basic statistics, carry being the 1 position and mid being the 2 position means you are more likely not to get those roles. No, you're not understanding me. The system is not going to put you at the bottom of the list in terms of MMR every single time out of your entire team. You're going to have the chance to play higher impact positions, because the system will put you with people that are lower MMR than you sometimes.
Which would result in 1 and 5 being the least played role and 3 being the most played role.
|
On January 24 2013 02:22 Mafe wrote:
They could make some kind of a comprise where only you can see your exact rating, but others can only see which range of rating you are in, maybe in steps of 100. Say if you have 1710 or 1790 rating, others could still only see you are in the 1700-1800 range; ideally also sorting player rating similar to the graph of hon posted some pages before. So if you check rating during a game, you can only check if somebody is significantly higher or lower rated than the others, which imho would not be that bad. I know this isn't perfect though.
Optionally you might still allow your exact rating to be displayed.
I think without DB Plus you will only be able to see player's "league" (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat/Diamond). Once you get plus then it will tell you their exact DBR.
Thats my theory at least.
|
Guys slow down, plz. Not only are you producing 10 posts a minute, all of them are boring too
|
28102 Posts
On January 24 2013 02:25 Qbek wrote:
Guys slow down, plz. Not only are you producing 10 posts a minute, all of them are boring too
I agree.
Also, this is the reason we made #tl.dota2 IRC on Quakenet 
|
On January 24 2013 02:20 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
Hate to break it to you super, but your "page 1" pubs....are still pubs.. they are casual games bro, they don't matter, they are there for fun, and you won't convince any of the people who dominate those games that they are anything but for fun matches. IF you don't like the IHLs in dota 2, then keep your mouth shut and wait, or make your own. thats the way dota has always worked. Hate to break it to you, but people at that level generally do play to win, so if you don't like it, you can keep your mouth shut and stay down in the 'fun' bracket. Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:20 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 24 2013 02:16 Gheizen64 wrote:
I'd say public DBR has already ruined the game even before it got out. That has to be somehting. Most insightful post in the last hour at least XD More seriously though, People who actually think win mid -> win game need to play more OD. Who said anything about OD? You go mid to get levels/fast farm so you can gank the map and control it for your team.
Playing to win in a fun way. I hope once MMR is released I won't meet any players like you. You flame if people play some kind of shitty heroe? OMG he's not tryhard, report!! He picked visage omfg, noob!
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 24 2013 02:16 superstartran wrote:
If you're playing a NADota stack, you have no choice but to play to win if you want to have any semblance of fun. If you try to play non-try hard/fun, you're gonna get fountain fed on within the first 15 minutes of the game.
That doesn't mean you have to tryhard to win. It means you're not good enough at the game to beat them without tryharding.
|
Just wait and see how they release DBR. Stop speculating what may happen.
|
On January 24 2013 02:23 superstartran wrote:
Some people are competitive by nature and don't have time to invest into a team. Pubs are where I play to win. Unfourtanately I don't have time to commit full time to a team. So wake up and smell the fresh coffee, some people actually do like to win.
I get that, i'm a very competitive person, but i don't pretend a game half of players on any given team take very casually is a good outlet for that.Like i said, once the IHLs take hold in dota 2 you'll get your competitive outlet you can ladder yourself up to the prize winning levels of the IHLs or earn entry into the real IHLS ect ect, but don't try to force that mentality in pubs, it only ends in hate.
|
This reminds me of something ice said the other day on his stream when someone asked him "why is he such a tryhard?".
He said he isn't tryharding just playing normally,it just looks to you like tryharding because you're bad at the game.
|
On January 24 2013 02:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:16 superstartran wrote:
If you're playing a NADota stack, you have no choice but to play to win if you want to have any semblance of fun. If you try to play non-try hard/fun, you're gonna get fountain fed on within the first 15 minutes of the game.
That doesn't mean you have to tryhard to win. It means you're not good enough at the game to beat them without tryharding.
burned.
|
Meh I dunno. I play the heroes I enjoy playing rather than putting 100% effort into a The International line up.
I can also tell you are a pretty mediocre player by thinking mid is a 1v1 situation and there is no way you can gank mid or something. But whatever, keep tryharding pubs aiming for that 100% winrate buddy. I rather tryhard when I scrim / play tournaments than in pubs.
|
TIL: This forum needs more 1v1 grudge matches.
|
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On January 24 2013 02:29 Gosi wrote:
TIL: This forum needs more 1v1 grudge matches.
I think we need a button next to 'report' saying 'CHALLENGE TO 1V1!'
Off to website feedback we go!
|
On January 24 2013 02:28 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:23 superstartran wrote:
Some people are competitive by nature and don't have time to invest into a team. Pubs are where I play to win. Unfourtanately I don't have time to commit full time to a team. So wake up and smell the fresh coffee, some people actually do like to win. I get that, i'm a very competitive person, but i don't pretend a game half of players on any given team take very casually is a good outlet for that.Like i said, once the IHLs take hold in dota 2 you'll get your competitive outlet you can ladder yourself up to the prize winning levels of the IHLs or earn entry into the real IHLS ect ect, but don't try to force that mentality in pubs, it only ends in hate.
Qbek really pointed out the main issue here. You will rarely get 4 people on your team who share the same mentality that you have about the game, so trying to "tryhard" without a 5 stack or in an environment that is meant to cater to competitive players specifically like an actual ladder is just unbelievably pointless.
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 24 2013 02:28 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:27 TheYango wrote:On January 24 2013 02:16 superstartran wrote:
If you're playing a NADota stack, you have no choice but to play to win if you want to have any semblance of fun. If you try to play non-try hard/fun, you're gonna get fountain fed on within the first 15 minutes of the game.
That doesn't mean you have to tryhard to win. It means you're not good enough at the game to beat them without tryharding. burned.
It wasn't meant as a personal attack. The point is that it's all a matter of skill level, not of some certain skill bracket having more serious players than others. An NADotA stack is going to be hard for someone because of their skill level relative to the NADotA stack, not because they're inherently tryhard. If an IG 5-stack queued into the NADotA stack, I'm sure they could still win all rushing Dagon 5s.
|
I know you didnt say it to insult him, I see the point you were making. I was just joking that it sounds like an insult especially in the context of this nerd ragey argument.
|
On January 24 2013 02:31 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 24 2013 02:23 superstartran wrote:
Some people are competitive by nature and don't have time to invest into a team. Pubs are where I play to win. Unfourtanately I don't have time to commit full time to a team. So wake up and smell the fresh coffee, some people actually do like to win. I get that, i'm a very competitive person, but i don't pretend a game half of players on any given team take very casually is a good outlet for that.Like i said, once the IHLs take hold in dota 2 you'll get your competitive outlet you can ladder yourself up to the prize winning levels of the IHLs or earn entry into the real IHLS ect ect, but don't try to force that mentality in pubs, it only ends in hate. Qbek really pointed out the main issue here. You will rarely get 4 people on your team who share the same mentality that you have about the game, so trying to "tryhard" without a 5 stack or in an environment that is meant to cater to competitive players specifically like an actual ladder is just unbelievably pointless.
I said something? I don't remember :/
|
On January 24 2013 02:25 Qbek wrote:
Guys slow down, plz. Not only are you producing 10 posts a minute, all of them are boring too
Yeah, lets get back to the discussion on the pickup game of basketball with Michale Jordan.
I need the full story here, as a Chicago native.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
